Geocontrol > TG2

Started by Parrot69, September 12, 2009, 09:10:00 PM

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Parrot69

I am checking out Geocontrol 2, I am convinced GC2+TG2 should be a winner.

Sadly I can not figure out the workflow from GC2 to TG2. I can of course get my mountain in TG2, but I can not shade the GC2 "selectors" (i.e. rivers etc.).

Basically I am following the GC2 to Vue tutorial here http://www.virtual-lands-3d.com/geocontrol-2-vue1.html#thumb, using the very same files, only trying to do the same with Terragen.

I would appreciate if anyone familiar with GC2 could please post a basic workflow.

Oshyan

It should be fairly simple, given that you've already got the terrain in. As long as you're outputting the images in a format that TG2 can read, you can load them with either an Image Map Shader or a Default Shader.

What you'll want to do is setup the texture you want to control with the "selector" image. So for example create a Surface Layer, give it a color, some displacement, etc. Then go to the Blend Shader input near the bottom, click the +> button and go to Create New Shader, Colour Shader, Image Map Shader. Now find your image in the file dialog that pops up and select it. Next, you need to set the camera projection to PlanY at the top, and then set the size of the image to be the same size as your heightfield (Geocontrol should be able to tell you how big it is in meters). Once that's done, it should then be controlling the distribution of your surface layer as expected. Mind you it may also be under the influence of the Fractal Breakup input, which you can disable if you want to control it exclusively with the "selector" map using the Blend Shader, or just disable temporarily to see the full influence of the selector on the surface layer distribution.

Of course I didn't cover the Default Shader, and there are in fact other ways to do this as well. That's one of the things about TG2, there are often different ways to do things that may provide similar results. The underlying techniques that make several methods possible to achieve a single effect are usually available in order to achieve other effects not otherwise possible.

- Oshyan

Parrot69

Oshyan thanks for your help. I did it, just as you said. As a test I colored the four shaders with intense colors red, green, blue and yellow.

As you can see, first it appears that the river is not exactly where it should be, and second, most important, the other three "features" do not show up. A bit of fluvial (the red one) is visible in close ups, as three or four red dots here and there. No sign of green and yellow. The bitmaps created by GC2 are all full of information and quite contrasty.




Parrot69

Oshyan please don't waste more time on this. I managed to try with Vue and the three features hardly show up there either! So it must be either the bitmaps or the tutorial itself are wrecked.

I can't believe a proper example of walkthrough from GC to Terragen is not available anywhere on the net.  ???

Volker Harun

<teasing on>
You could ask Cajomi, he is the developer of GeoControl and is a user on this forum, too. Just send him a PM. I hope that he'll give some explanations in this thread. ;)
<teasing off>

Parrot69

The procedure as described by Oshian is correct, there is not much else to do from our (Terragen) side. If Cajomi has chosen to offer his product without proper tutorials on how to interface it with the only two landscaping applications out there it means that he prefers that way or he has no time, either way there is little point in asking IMO.

Both TG2 and GC2 come with little documentation, it is apparently up to the users to find out, "having fun" experimenting. But where TG2 (as well as the old Terragen) have a certain subtle charm that makes this enjoyable, Geocontrol is a bit more harsh.

Maybe one day some giant such as Eon or Autodesk will buy both and come out with a $2000 product with 3 GB of content and 500 pages of manuals and everything will be sorted... not sure I will like that either though  ::)

cyphyr

I think the issue is liable to be down to the difference between procedural data and rasterised data. Both GC and TG produce all their own internal procedural data to create their heightfields. This data is near infinite in resolution but once exported it becomes a raster bitmap of some discription which is inherently limited in resolution. You will have to use MASSIVE bitmaps to get around this and it will become impractical very quickly. Maybe 64 bit will help (anybody know if GC is 64Bit or planned?) but the only real solution I can see is a direct export of whatever functions are used to create the details in the terrain your after. A possible use for the SDK when released ...
Richard
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CCC

There seems to be no issues on my end. What i did was made a 1024 by 1024 resolution terrain inside of GeoControl, saved the .ter export, made the selections for the masks and added surfaces layers with image map blending like what you did and set the image maps to 16,000 meters according to the 1024 size and everything fit perfectly. Best to make 4096 by 4096 height fields and image maps for the masks that way your raster data can be viewed close up. Adding fractal details to your imported data from Terragen helps as well.

Note: The borders looks funky but just turn Border Blending all the way down.

Here is the .GTS and .TGD files to get you going. Just render out the provided .GTS file for GeoControl for the Terragen file, both thin flows selections, river and lake selections because they are too big to upload here. The TGD file should read them accordingly and make sure the GeoControl resolutions match to Terragen's measurements.


Parrot69

CCC thanks for the files and tips, worked like a charm. I was totally misled by the Vue (!) tutorial which I was following at the start, now everything makes perfect sense. Thank you everyone!  ;D

Henry Blewer

I have been playing with Vue a little. It's workflow is different than Terragen 2's. The way terrains are handled and made is also different.
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CCC

Quote from: Parrot69 on September 13, 2009, 06:15:05 PM
CCC thanks for the files and tips, worked like a charm. I was totally misled by the Vue (!) tutorial which I was following at the start, now everything makes perfect sense. Thank you everyone!  ;D


No problem. The terrain sizes take some getting used to but once it all fits well then it is all good to go.

CCC

#11
Quote from: cyphyr on September 13, 2009, 02:10:11 PM
I think the issue is liable to be down to the difference between procedural data and rasterised data. Both GC and TG produce all their own internal procedural data to create their heightfields. This data is near infinite in resolution but once exported it becomes a raster bitmap of some discription which is inherently limited in resolution. You will have to use MASSIVE bitmaps to get around this and it will become impractical very quickly. Maybe 64 bit will help (anybody know if GC is 64Bit or planned?) but the only real solution I can see is a direct export of whatever functions are used to create the details in the terrain your after. A possible use for the SDK when released ...
Richard

I check the geocontrol forums often and i do not recall seeing any plans for 64bit but i am sure it is on Cajomi's mind.

Parrot69

#12
CCC one last question I don't understand in your post when you say to "set image maps 16000x16000 according to the 1024 size" but I just don't get it why since the terrain is 22500x22500 ?

CCC

Quote from: Parrot69 on September 14, 2009, 09:05:09 AM
CCC one last question I don't understand in your post when you say to "set image maps 16000x16000 according to the 1024 size" but I just don't get it why since the terrain is 22500x22500 ?

For a 1024 by 1024 terrain resolution for the Terragen file format in meters, the correct size once inside of Terragen needs to be 15,360 by 15,360 meters otherwise nothing will line up correctly. With larger resolutions, just double everything at that point. Don't go by what GeoControl is telling you as you are using Terragen units when exporting .ter files.

I meant to say 15,360 meters. I was off a bit.

Parrot69

So basically don't trust GC size but multiply its resolution by 15 instead... got it thanks!  ;D ... jeez I don't know how people are supposed to find out all these info!