Blender

Started by Harvey Birdman, April 14, 2007, 09:57:45 am

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Harvey Birdman

So is it just me, or does Blender suck?

:)

Seriously, what an overrated piece of crap. Anytime an app's documentation has to repeatedly tell you how it's UI may be non-standard and may take a while to learn, but oh! once you get used to it, you'll realize that it's just so much better than a standard UI you'll be in heaven...

Oh, yeah. Sure. Take file operations, for instance. Now, it's been a while since I played with a Mac, but it seems to me that it worked pretty much the same way as a PC - when in File Explorer or whatever, you select a directory, for instance, by single clicking, and open it (drill down) with a double click. Not Blender! Nope, there a single click drills down. So out the window go all the UI behaviors one has learned to expect over the years. Oh, but this is better! So productive!

And it's so well documented! Christ, how long has this thing been around? And all those fanatics can't put together a (decent) manual that's relevant to the current rev of the program.

Nope, I'm forced to conclude that the very existence of this thing is a legacy of the dot-com era stupidity, when someone could show up at Siggraph with a half-assed, half-completed program and fools would throw millions at it.

I guess I better save my pennies and buy a real 3D design program.

dhavalmistry

ya I tried learning blender a while back but it was very confusing for me.....I found maya to be more straight forward

oh and I dont know if you are aware of this but there is a manual/guide coming out for blender (30 euros)

http://www.blender3d.org/e-shop/product_info.php?products_id=96

"His blood-terragen level is 99.99%...he is definitely drunk on Terragen!"

Harvey Birdman

Yeah, I  know. I've read it's predecessor - the same manual for the previous version is available online for free. I'm assuming it's of similar quality/style; I stand by my earlier assertion that there is no (decent) manual.

;D

Will

I would have to disagree becuase (at least for me) the ui not that terrable and for a free program it gives you a lot. I'm currently using XSI now but I have the student edition so no commerial use for me ( I don't have the 12 grand to buy the real thing) I like using bleder from time to time just to see what people add to it and the fluid simulation isn't all that bad. Though I see your point about the UI though.

Regards,

Will
The world is round... so you have to use spherical projection.

MooseDog

have you seen this:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Blender_3D:_Noob_to_Pro

i use blender only sparingly, but like any app, if it has what i need i have no problem with a learning curve, no matter how steep or out of the ordinary.  it's certainly not crap, it's very rich in features and capabilities.  (i use lightwave mainly btw)

have you modelled and rendered anything to share that demonstrates it's crapness?

Harvey Birdman

Will - yeah, it's free. That's probably the one thing in it's favor, but it's a good example of the old adage that one gets what one pays for. (That's one of the reasons I was so impressed with TG when I discovered it - here was something one could actually do something useful with right off the bat, and it was free.)

MD - There is a reason UI standards evolve and are adhered to. I have too many things to do to spend my time learning a massively non-standard UI when competitive programs have the consideration to stick to the standards. I can't see any reason for Blender's bizarre UI behaviors other than the authors arrogant belief that they know better than every accepted UI standard out there. (imho, of course.) As for sharing something that I might have rendered with it, what's the point? I've used it for rendering occasionally, but for simple low-poly modeling it's the last thing I'd choose, it's file format conversions seem iffy at best, and the documentation sucks. As noted above, it IS free, so the level of disappointment isn't what it would be had I paid a ton of money for it, but it still sucks. imho.

Will

Well lets not flame. It has a large community and there are those here who enjoy using it. You are, oh course, entitled to your own opinion and you seem set in your belief that Blender is not the 3D program for you but have a little respect for those who use it please.

Regards,

Will
The world is round... so you have to use spherical projection.

Harvey Birdman

If criticism of a software program is enough to so wound some poor soul, I'd suggest they are in desperate need of a life.

::)

Will

you have a point there.... ;)

But regardless the basic rule around the fourms is courtisy, if that rule is followed by all then we can continue to post threads like this stating our opinion.

Regards,


Will
The world is round... so you have to use spherical projection.

MooseDog

Quote from: Harvey Birdman on April 14, 2007, 01:30:28 pm
...massively non-standard UI...


it's not bizarre, it's not non-standard ;D it's from another f'ing planet altogether :o

i was trying to point out tho that there's more than one way to judge an applications effectiveness.  example:  i once used blender's fluid sim to great effect.  getting there was quite, no..really painful, but i got there, and the sim and the renders turned out great.

as to the ui, it's my understanding that there is a logic to it, and that it's quite consistent.  personally, .....i have no idea what F that logic is :).  contrarian mode:  is it similar to pressing the start button in windows to shut it down? 

blender's ui logic doesn't fit me, it doesn't fit you...that doesn't make the program as a whole crap.  if it was crap, the blender boards and galleries would look like poser pages, not accomplished artists.

again, it is a feature-rich application (and like any...strong here, weak there etc etc) that in hands that it fits can translate what an artist is trying to express.  this, imho, pretty much describes any and all of the major 3d applications.

Harvey Birdman

April 15, 2007, 01:52:41 am #10 Last Edit: April 15, 2007, 01:55:54 am by Harvey Birdman
Hey, MD.

:)

You make an excellent point about the quality of the images it's possible to create with it. Like I said, I have found use for it on occasion... but I'd put a little different spin on it. There's no denying that some talented work has gone into implementing it's features, but just think how much more could be created with it if that functionality had been wrapped in a sensible UI? They've dramatically hamstrung what might have been a promising product by tossing the UI standards out the window. Then the 'manual' repeatedly attempts to justify it (even boasts about it!). Sort of smacks of tilting at windmills. (Like this rant, where the true believers are concerned.   :D )

Cyber-Angel

Blender (Which I have but haven't got round to learning yet) has a learning curve just like any other software title out there and as far as its UI is concerned there are far worse UI's out there in the wild right now.

I think (IMHO) that if the Blender community wants a better interface they will demand one and get it, or some one in the community could just design one since Blender is a open source application.

I think what should be understood here is that there is no universally accepted way of designing interfaces, yes there are standards but they are not enforced and as with every thing else in software the old adage is true "You can't please all of  the people all of the time" .

Right now with todays modelling methods it can take hours, days or longer to make a model which if you have an idea which needs to be gotten down quickly then this is vary annoying, one day you may have software interfaces that are as fast and easy to use as picking up and pencil and drawing on paper but until that day we have to make do with what resources we are given, this is true for all software applications not just Blender.

Regards to you.

Cyber-Angel   

king_tiger_666

blender interface reminds me of lightwave.. both look confusing and have tabs all over the show.  but then again truespace is also confusing but does some great stuff...


<a href="www.hobbies.nzaus.co.nz/">My  Terragen Downloads & Gallery</a>

Will

I think the Zbrush UI is sorta the same way in the fact thats it can be confusing but one you get down the basics or leard where what you need is then you can look past the problums.

Regards,

Will
The world is round... so you have to use spherical projection.

RealUser

I own Realsoft3D (raytracer) which has a steep learning curve, but great tools to model everything you can imagine. In some areas (animation of quad-/bi-peds) it lacks of functionality, on the other hand it is very good in what it does. The image quality is phantastic and it is, compared to other modeling/raytracing programs, really cheap. What bothers me about this program is the mathematically attitude it "provides" to the user. Everything is technically and i really tried to cope with that. But i have to face it: I am no technician. My understanding of the shader language it has, comes close to nothing. I can do some basic shaders, but will be lost if i wanted to do some sophisticated things like anisotropic effects or the like.
Since my interests of image creation with CGI began in the good old C=64/8Bit-time and AMIGA days, i often stumbled over software that does its job a "different" way. To be honest: nearly every software does its job not as good as it could be, when it comes to the user interfaces. I am a supporter of the "maximum 3 clicks-or-less-and-short-mousemoves-attitude", to start an action, function, script or anything else in a software. I have  rarely seen s/w which doesn't wants to be clickediclicked and needs massive mouse-"action" for simple functions. Blender is one of this s/w in a long row of others. Just name one, it will fit! IMHO, most of the nowadays s/w walks in children's shoes regarding the UI. S/W is often un-intuitiv and uncomfortable and forces the user to learn many clicks here and there to make a simple action. That said, nearly every s/w is "crap" when it comes to ease of use.
Markus / RealUser
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