'Dark Knight Rises'

Started by matrix2003, July 20, 2012, 04:38:35 pm

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matrix2003

July 20, 2012, 04:38:35 pm Last Edit: July 20, 2012, 11:31:23 pm by matrix2003
Well I am a big kid at heart, like most here I am sure 8)  The incident in Colorado has kinda put me off of this movie. I am not afraid of going to a theater, that's not it at all.  I personally don't think I can go to my local theater right now and watch this with out thinking about what just transpired.

Perhaps I should share that I worked 23 years as a full time electrician and part time IT guy for 2 mental hospitals.
I found Terragen to be a relaxing distraction from people like this.

   -Bill.
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-MATRIX2003-      ·DHV·  ....·´¯`*
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Tangled-Universe

Yeah it's a shame and sad that TDKR is suffering due to this idiot. I can imagine that you feel it's not appropriate to go and see it now and especially enjoying it.
The tragedy and loss of the people is far more sad of course.
"Only in America", we say here in The Netherlands (as well), "where you can buy weapons legally, you can expect this to happen from time to time".
And as long as the citizens themselves do not see the problem of having a gun yourself at home then this will keep on happening again from time to time.
Guns should be illegal at any time and shooting ranges where you can shoot for sports, should keep the guns somewhere locked away only to be used on the range.

rcallicotte

We should do it anyway.  Enjoy the film, even if it means taking a couple of days to get things in perspective.  This might be the best of the trilogy.

I won't miss it.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

rcallicotte

http://www.swedishwire.com/nordic/10742-survivors-of-norway-massacre-speak-of-horror- 

Not only in America.  And don't forget the Arab world where this thing happens on a much larger and more heinous scale, only more frikken unbelievable in scope and utterly without any reason whatsoever - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/world/middleeast/03iraq.html or http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/24/us-russia-blast-airport-idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124

So, when trying to disarm Americans, one of the few places allowed to protect ourselves from criminals, it aint gonna happen.


Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 21, 2012, 01:19:01 pm
Yeah it's a shame and sad that TDKR is suffering due to this idiot. I can imagine that you feel it's not appropriate to go and see it now and especially enjoying it.
The tragedy and loss of the people is far more sad of course.
"Only in America", we say here in The Netherlands (as well), "where you can buy weapons legally, you can expect this to happen from time to time".
And as long as the citizens themselves do not see the problem of having a gun yourself at home then this will keep on happening again from time to time.
Guns should be illegal at any time and shooting ranges where you can shoot for sports, should keep the guns somewhere locked away only to be used on the range.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Kadri

July 21, 2012, 08:09:24 pm #4 Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 09:01:01 pm by Kadri
Quote from: calico on July 21, 2012, 07:23:33 pm
http://www.swedishwire.com/nordic/10742-survivors-of-norway-massacre-speak-of-horror- 
Not only in America.  And don't forget the Arab world where this thing happens on a much larger and more heinous scale, only more frikken unbelievable in scope - http://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/03/world/middleeast/03iraq.html or http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/01/24/us-russia-blast-airport-idUSTRE70N2TQ20110124
So, when trying to disarm Americans, one of the few places allowed to protect ourselves from criminals, it aint gonna happen.


Calico you have really an interesting mindset  ::)

The links you gave are about religion , politics etc.
They make them not right of course!
Abolutely not!
But in America the mass murders are mostly right stupid and only have some weird psychological reasons mostly . They are more selfishly etc.

But you can easily say " and utterly without any reason whatsoever" about the others.  :o

"So, when trying to disarm Americans, one of the few places allowed to protect ourselves from criminals, it aint gonna happen."
And what does your government do ?
Do they not protect you?
They have maybe other more important things to do like invading Irak ?
What do you do at nights do you wait with your magnum all night in fear?
How many arms do you have in your arsenal...ops home?

I understand that you will try to defend your country in some way,
but please try to make some reasonably comparison.
Because in this way you look more like a (excuse me) racist fascist .
I am not saying that you are one but with your post it really looks so. 

Go to the hospital where the mother is and say to her your 6 years old girl is death but the Arabs and Muslims do much worse...  :o
It is strange how you can try to put others in a bad spot by using this atack !

I am really sorry for everyone that suffered  :(

Edit : This is an American too :
         http://blogs.suntimes.com/ebert/2012/07/the_body_count.html

TheBadger

The right to keep and bear arms is a foundational, and fundamental right in the United States. It was made so by the people and is maintained by the people. Those who wrote the right to defend ones self against their own government or any group or individual, were among the wisest people of their time. And I have heard nothing here or any place else to make me believe that there is a better way to insure personal liberty than the right to own a fire arm.

I own two. And I will not give them up because of this tragedy any sooner than I will give up my right to free speech because someone else through words alone, inspires a bombing.

Limiting rights or flat out taking them away solves nothing. The problem is in peoples hearts and minds, not their hands. This is not the first mass murder in that city, it wont be the last. There is something sick in the culture there, and its not firearms.

Not going to see a movie does nothing to help the people who are suffering. Do you think Bat Man had something to do with this? Not going to see a film in order to pay honor to the dead is cheap and laughable, and terribly sad. Why not turn off your computers for a day? That makes just as much sense.

The Man who did these killings was also building bombs, by the way. Better that he used a gun than explosives.
It has been eaten.

Kadri


I do not agree  what you say in your post TheBadger but it is debatable what you say!
But Calico's aproach is not in the same way.
That is the reason i posted otherwise you have these kind of arguments for long years already and probably this will not the last one.

TheBadger

I do not know about Calico's. I did not read the links. I really am tired from this subject though. The first thing people say when things like this happen is, "lets get the guns!". No one ever says, "why was that man alone all the time. "Why is mental health in this country not a top priority?".

No. Its just, "lets get the guns! That will solve all our problems!". Its such simple minded bull shit I cant stand it.

How about this one... "The things you say make me want to be Violent. Therefore, I think we should cut out your tongue, so I will no longer feel violent." Its the same thing, to me.

It has been eaten.

Kadri

July 21, 2012, 10:34:50 pm #8 Last Edit: July 21, 2012, 10:38:02 pm by Kadri

TheBadger if someone here has really good reasons to have a gun he can.
My brother has one. It is legal . But you have to go through some bureaucratic stages.
And i am not against it. The problem is why should every one get so easily such guns?
The wise man you mention lived in a much much different period .
Are we really not better than those times now?
Are all what they said right and true 200 hundred years later?
If i lived at those times i would say the same as you, but now? No thanks!

People who are in a position that is understandable
(my brother has a house right in a forest ) could and probably should have a right to have a gun as they have here.
But why should be everyone entitled to this.
There are so much problematic guys everywhere.
In insisting that this is your right you open the door to many armed maniacs.
I am sure that you will shoot no one in your life , but they will , TheBadger that is the problem!

TheBadger

July 22, 2012, 02:14:21 am #9 Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 02:27:07 am by TheBadger
Hey Kadri. I was wondering where  you were! Glad your talking again. Have to meet your points though, just cant help my self. Since I finished school I never get to argue with anyone. Well just my wife, but thats not any fun :)

QuoteThe problem is why should every one get so easily such guns?


Yes lets start restricting guns based on... income? Lets make it so expensive poor people cant get them. No, lets just ban them all together. Because in a nation of 300+ million people that will work. It works in Chicago!  ::)

Sorry for the sarcasm but at this late hour I find its the easiest path forward.

QuoteThe wise man you mention lived in a much much different period...Are we really not better than those times now?


Things are much worse now. Now kids walk in to public places and murder large numbers of their own people for no reason.
Own people? Ok, you got me on that one. Probably we are nearly as divided a nation as before our civil war. Even almost 1/3 of my own people want to take away some of my constitutional rights, rights my Grandfather bled for, and screamed in his sleep from memories, until the day he died. Rights that I  understand because he taught me. Rights that only people who don't understand, want to take away.

QuoteAre all what they said right and true 200 hundred years later?


The Truth is always the Truth. Only facts change.

QuoteBut why should be everyone entitled to this


Everyone is not entitled to this. Rights are not entitlements. Understanding the difference will go a long way to helping you understand why we have gun Rights... Everyone in the US does not have the right to own a gun, just a fact.

QuoteIf i lived at those times i would say the same as you, but now? No thanks!


No, but you live in a nation whos' people have suffered under one tyrant after another for thousands of years.
I consider Turkey an important member of western civilization since the times of the eastern empire. Do you really think that just because western and Eastern Europe, as well as parts of the middle east (including Turkey) have seen relative peace and prosperity for 50 years or so, that you wont see War and Tyranny again? The regions and lands I mentioned have been, up to WW2, in a constant state of war and tyranny for at least two thousand years. It will happen again.

I would think the peoples of the lands I mentioned would want the same rights I have. Without restriction I mean.

QuoteIn insisting that this is your right you open the door to many armed maniacs


I don't need to insist on anything. Owning a gun IS my right... I have not opened any doors in this mater. Its been this way for more than 200 years. And its worked pretty well over all.
And maniacs don't need rights to own a gun, they don't care about laws. The Law has never prevented a single crime, but only gives us a civil recourse after a crime has already been committed. The purpose of law is not to prevent crime but to provide justice. We do not need law to teach us what is right, we need it to compel us to do justice.

If he did not have a gun, he would have used a bomb, or gas, or an air plane.

QuoteI am sure that you will shoot no one in your life , but they will


I will kill any man who causes me to fear for the life of my Wife and Son. And for their sake I will defend my own life with violence. I will kill with out mercy or hesitation anyone who I believe represents an immediate and certain danger to my family, if I am able.
Believe it.


*Just to bring this back to TDKR. This same conversation that we are having was held in the film. Although it was in a funny sorta way. It was between cat woman and bat man, when cat woman saves bat man from baine (bane, bain?) by using a gun. Just wanted to mention that.
It has been eaten.

Kadri


TheBadger you really stick to your gun  :)

Bad times may come here  but it seems your culture needs really some care .
If some one doesn't want to give up his "right" for owning guns for reasons you and others present ,
your country has some deep emotional,social ,psychological and what not problems.
The only ones who really benefit are the gun makers.
We have many problems here like suicide bombers from this or that side and many people die in the eastern parts,
but no one is crying loud that everybody should own guns.

I have not the urge to go further with this.
We clearly see this in a much different way  :)



TheBadger

July 22, 2012, 03:01:37 am #11 Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 03:08:02 am by TheBadger
QuoteTheBadger you really stick to your gun


LOL! You are funny and very diplomatic! These are good skills Kadri, I am sure you do pretty well in your life. I think these skills are why people like you so much.  8)

QuoteWe clearly see this in a much different way


Of Course we do. We are different, we come from different places. This is not a bad thing at all.

Cheers Kadri! ;)

*PS
QuoteBad times may come here  but it seems your culture needs really some care

Yes!!! There is something very sick in the heart of my country now. I think everyone is starting to take notice of it. I hope we can fix it.
It has been eaten.


Tangled-Universe

July 22, 2012, 06:58:27 am #13 Last Edit: July 22, 2012, 07:06:47 am by Tangled-Universe
Quote from: calico on July 21, 2012, 07:23:33 pm

...

So, when trying to disarm Americans, one of the few places allowed to protect ourselves from criminals, it aint gonna happen.

...



This is exactly my point Rob. This idea is being spoonfed into every US citizen, but does it have a solid base? No.
The law and law-enforcement need to do that.
People can't be cop, judge and executioner at the same time. The majority is simply too dumb for that.

Quote from: TheBadger on July 21, 2012, 09:30:38 pm
The right to keep and bear arms is a foundational, and fundamental right in the United States. It was made so by the people and is maintained by the people. Those who wrote the right to defend ones self against their own government or any group or individual, were among the wisest people of their time. And I have heard nothing here or any place else to make me believe that there is a better way to insure personal liberty than the right to own a fire arm.


The wisest doctors over a century ago performed a lot of unnecessary amputations and thought that blood-letting cured everything. Now, we know better ;)

Maybe it was a good solution then, but it's not of this time anymore. Or is it when you consider that a lot of US citizens are still kind of brainwashed by this 'foundation' and 'fundamental law'??
I see why Rob (calico) churned out links about politics and especially religion.
Keeping weapons at home for your own protection is a fallacy and embraced as a religion? Or am I exaggerating?

cyphyr

What about my rights to NOT be terrified of your "right" to terrify me with your guns!.

Its a beautiful sunny Sunday in England's Somerset, the birds are singing and there is not a cloud in the sky. However this tranquil idyll is punctuated by the local gun club having a shoot in the field close by. It's their right, apparently. It's their right to hold a killing machine and wave it about like a flag advertising their freedom and ownership. There is also a public right of way footpath through said field.

Maybe I should walk over there and politely ask them to stop.
Maybe they could shoot things when the rest of us are not resting.
Or do it indoors, or not do it, or take up archery!
Maybe they find the sound of gunfire restful.
I don't!
Guns terrify me and anybody who has one terrifies me too. That includes the police.

What about my rights to NOT be terrified.

Richard

S:going to see Dark Knight on Wednesday :)
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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