Started by matrix2003, July 20, 2012, 04:38:35 pm
QuoteThe wisest doctors over a century ago performed a lot of unnecessary amputations and thought that blood-letting cured everything. Now, we know better
QuoteWhat about my rights to NOT be terrified of your "right" to terrify me with your guns!.
QuoteBut banning guns will save a lot of lives regardless, for those situations mentioned above.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 22, 2012, 05:49:00 pmT-U,QuoteThe wisest doctors over a century ago performed a lot of unnecessary amputations and thought that blood-letting cured everything. Now, we know betterI would say that those Dr.'s were not very wise. But the wisdom of Americas founders remains.
Quote from: FrankB on July 23, 2012, 04:05:41 am...However, you have also touched on another important point earlier. Banning guns will not help as such. There is a long way to go to care for the mental health of people in the first place. Also, to bridge the vast divide between rich and poor, between educated and illiterate, between justice and injustice. That is the true task for a sane society, and ideally it goes along with a ban of firearms.regards,Frank
Quote from: Tangled-Universe on July 23, 2012, 04:37:00 am...I was so horrified to see Obama being depicted as Hitler on Union Square in San Francisco ...
QuoteI did not know the American people had invaded England and were terrorizing you with civilian weaponry. There is a total news black out here! Tell us who's winning?!
Quote* Edit)The shooter in Denver, was not poor, and he was highly educated. Point of Fact.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 am...You can think of Illinois like france, and Wisconsin (for example) like Germany in terms of size and proximity to one another. And if you were to talk to someone from Chicago and someone from Wisconsin you would hear a difference in the language. In terms of culture, the two states may as well be two different countries. I have a reason for putting it this way that will be clear in a moment....Illinois and Wisconsin have the same social and economic problems at the individual and community levels. Yet Wisconsin has non of the violence and corruption that you see in Chicago and in other parts of Illinois. Even in Milwaukee, Wisconsin's largest city, where there is some serious problems, there is nothing like what you will see if you live in Illinois. The two states may as well be two different countries. One upholds the U.S. constitution and the other does not. Guess which state has all the problems?
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 amIf you look at the statistics in the States, you will see that the gun crime is all in the places with gun bans. I do not know which came first. But I think that It is better to shoot than to be shot.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 amYou keep saying that a gun ban will stop something, "How far do you need to go to anger the young man so that he draws the gun?". You mention social status, economics and education. You say that it is poor uneducated people who are the danger, so much so, that we need to ban guns for everyone. But I am, I think, highly educated relative to most of my peers, I am also very poor as a result of that education. I can tell you I never learned morality in school, and even though I am poor I have never even thought to do a murder out of anger. Violence and gun murders do not come as as a result of poverty and a lack of education, but from a lack of morality. From evil. From the animal side of man. You can not ban those things, so banning guns will not fix or stop them. But having a gun, and knowing how and when to use it can save you from those things.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 amTo your last point, good Sir. You say that the task of a sane society includes gun bans. But I say anyone who gives up their right to defend themselves and their families is insane, or a coward. I will not forsake my duties as a husband, father, son, or brother, and I will not depend on others do what is entrusted with me. I hope that I will have help if I ever need it, but I wont rely on it, that would be stupid.Also, Tactical shooting is a great sport, one that I think is superior to golf and baseball. I know you guy like 'football' over there. But I like sports that are more about self improvement. And all though shooting is a sport, it is no game. Im to old to be playing games.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 am@T-UJust about everything you said in your last post is either factually, historically, or observationally incorrect. But your post was to long and brought up to many different topix to respond to just now. But I will when I have slept Stay tuned.
Quote from: TheBadger on July 23, 2012, 06:09:39 am* Edit)The shooter in Denver, was not poor, and he was highly educated. Point of Fact.
Quote from: cyphyr on July 23, 2012, 05:43:19 amI have to say I completely agree with Frank, however you do make some interesting points.It may be true that the experiment in Chicago with banning guns has failed and the reasons are pretty clear, you can still get guns elsewhere. Maybe it's too late for America. Gun ownership has become too ubiquitous, too "normal", to be easily turned around. However in the UK it is still a relatively rare occurrence, most people do not own guns even in the countryside, hence my anger at seeing/hearing it practically on my door step.
Quote from: FrankB on July 23, 2012, 07:35:42 amI don't know, Michael, you seem to cherry pick a certain side of the story, then put it into focus and through that neglect the bigger picture... But then maybe I am doing the same? Not sure, but I am not pretending to know the truth.However, I wouldn't think of you as a coward if you had no guns. In fact I think you are a good fellow who I respect. I wish you could see that a gunless society is possible and has benefits.Regards,Frank
Quotelet me just say that by definition God must be just, and therefore cannot abide murder.