Functions Academy

Started by archonforest, August 08, 2019, 12:15:50 pm

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DannyG

Boy this derailed quickly, Great work guys :'(

archonforest

Lets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?
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WAS

Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.
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Dune

And color and scalar can be intermixed. Like a pf color values also work as scalars or numbers.

WAS

Quote from: Dune on August 11, 2019, 03:52:24 amAnd color and scalar can be intermixed. Like a pf color values also work as scalars or numbers.

Which is handy dandy. You can turn off clamping, and exceed the slider for positive and negative values beyond the sliders.
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archonforest

Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.

Thanx WAS. Yes my def was completely wrong...I knew it when I opened the ADD SCALAR and saw that it is an empty node waiting for an input. Thx for the example! I have a question though. In your example you used the ADD SCALAR to mix two SCALARS and have a 20m high column. As far I can see the ADD SCALAR is not really needed in this case. I just have to plug the SCALAR into the Disp part of the surface shader. Can u show another example where the ADD SCALAR is really needed in the network? My only guess is when u want to mix color/scalar/vectors?
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Hetzen

I'm sure this is what Oshyan and Matt have in mind.

I think it would be helpful to set up a sub forum called Functions Academy which would have topics named for each set of nodes. The first post in each topic, would be a summary of all subsequent messages which will need to be updated when additions and corrections are posted, so it becomes a one stop shop, rather than having to trawl through a whole bunch posts to get the gist of how the nodes work. Maybe with links to the relevant post in the discussion.

I'd be happy to help moderate that as time allows.

Hetzen

Additionally we could set up some template scenes for examples. So we know the node preview window is good for illustration and we have spheres being used for some texturing and displacement shaders. A locked off camera on a sphere would help get some consistency between examples and some basic rules on naming shaders. So there is a consistent language being used between contributors.

For example a Constant Scaler of 10 is named "10".

A Constant Colour of RGB 0.5,0.5,0.5 is named "RGB 0.5,0.5,0.5"

A Constant Vector is named "V 100,1000,100"

Which will show static values being used without having to jump into the node to find it, as WAS has shown in his post above.

Notes Nodes should be used where ever relevant to describe what is happening at that branch of the network. Even if it's just a label to help your written explanation.

Nodes should be laid out tidily, with a clear view of the connections and broken into well spaced groups to separate processes. For example converting a scaler input into radians as one section, feeding a Sine function another, isolating the positive part of the curve another. So the flow is broken into easily digestible blocks that people can follow to learn and or problem solve a contribution.

These are just a few ideas.

cyphyr

I seriously think it should be a HEAVILY moderated forum. Possibly even with locked posts. Discussion can happen elsewhere in the main forum (link to node post being discussed) and will veer off and derail as always happens on all forums. If a discussion shows that a locked node reference post needs alteration or updating because of the discussion elsewhere then the author (and forum mods) will have the ability to make that change and then re-lock the post.
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archonforest

Excellent ideas Hetzen and cyphyr. My original idea was to have a basic but well worded definition so everybody can understand it not just the math geniuses lol. This should go for all nodes. And yes examples/templates that clearly shows the nodes in action. Perhaps a small render also if possible so we visualize everything that can be visualized.

Hopefully Matt or Oshyan can do the setup quickly. Until that point we can continue here. Any more ideas that can show the usage of a ADD SCALAR?
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N-drju

Yes, I agree this should be a heavily moderated forum where node examples and node description should only be performed by willing specialists / users. No chit-chat allowed.

At the same time, I believe it is neither Matt nor Oshyan (no offence) who should be the moderators. I suppose they have different priorities and goals and we need a "coalition of the willing" that is dedicated just to this goal...

Whatever we do, let's do it NOW. This thread has already four pages and you keep bringing up new nodes, cluttering down any possible knowledge...
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

WAS

Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 04:48:36 am
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.

Thanx WAS. Yes my def was completely wrong...I knew it when I opened the ADD SCALAR and saw that it is an empty node waiting for an input. Thx for the example! I have a question though. In your example you used the ADD SCALAR to mix two SCALARS and have a 20m high column. As far I can see the ADD SCALAR is not really needed in this case. I just have to plug the SCALAR into the Disp part of the surface shader. Can u show another example where the ADD SCALAR is really needed in the network? My only guess is when u want to mix color/scalar/vectors?

Errr well what you do with it could be anything, now that you know how it works, being just addition of a scalar. The biggest one besides basic masks is actual mathematic formulas represented by scalar nodes and such like Hetzens Manhattan.

Let me get on my PC and I can show you something. Also nearing a point I may share the crater shader updates. Lots of add scalar in there lol
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Oshyan

Quote from: Hetzen on August 11, 2019, 06:11:58 amI think it would be helpful to set up a sub forum called Functions Academy which would have topics named for each set of nodes. The first post in each topic, would be a summary of all subsequent messages which will need to be updated when additions and corrections are posted, so it becomes a one stop shop, rather than having to trawl through a whole bunch posts to get the gist of how the nodes work. Maybe with links to the relevant post in the discussion.
Yes, *exactly*. You already understand a good part of what we're intending to do, probably because you've seen it work well on many, many other forums. :D

@N-drju don't worry too much about the posts happening in this thread that have useful info. We can split them out later and move them to the relevant area in the new location.


- Oshyan

WAS

August 11, 2019, 01:27:31 pm #58 Last Edit: August 11, 2019, 01:30:50 pm by WASasquatch
Quote from: Hetzen on August 11, 2019, 06:41:02 amAdditionally we could set up some template scenes for examples. So we know the node preview window is good for illustration and we have spheres being used for some texturing and displacement shaders. A locked off camera on a sphere would help get some consistency between examples and some basic rules on naming shaders. So there is a consistent language being used between contributors.

For example a Constant Scaler of 10 is named "10".

A Constant Colour of RGB 0.5,0.5,0.5 is named "RGB 0.5,0.5,0.5"

A Constant Vector is named "V 100,1000,100"

Which will show static values being used without having to jump into the node to find it, as WAS has shown in his post above.

Notes Nodes should be used where ever relevant to describe what is happening at that branch of the network. Even if it's just a label to help your written explanation.

Nodes should be laid out tidily, with a clear view of the connections and broken into well spaced groups to separate processes. For example converting a scaler input into radians as one section, feeding a Sine function another, isolating the positive part of the curve another. So the flow is broken into easily digestible blocks that people can follow to learn and or problem solve a contribution.

These are just a few ideas.

No offense, but your naming convention will get very confusing fast. You may also quickly hit naming convention collision with two scalars being 10. It's best to name your shaders with what they are doing in that specific scenario.

Lets say you have a Scalar being Multiplied the scalar is for a "Crater" (or something). So we call the Multiply Shader "Multiply Crater Scalar" and than we name the constnat "Multiply Crater Scalar by 10" where 10 is it's numeric value.

This will literally say what the functions are doing to new and old users utilizing the content.

Often I also parenthesis on shaders that may be similar to other "Hazey Clouds (Cloud Layer v2)" than "Plumage Clouds (Cloud Layer v3)" sorta deal.
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Hetzen

I was thinking that constants are only called this way. Multiply Scaler 01 stays being called Multiply Scaler 01. Sure you may have several values of 10 in a complex network but for the purposes of explaining something simple I doubt you would have multiple constants of the same value. Even if you do, nothing stopping you plumbing out of one a couple of times.

I'm not necessarily locked to the idea and certainly don't like the idea of renaming a function node anything other than what the function is doing ie +,-,/,* etc. That's what the Notes node or written explanation is for.