Functions Academy

Started by archonforest, August 08, 2019, 12:15:50 pm

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WAS

Quote from: Hetzen on August 11, 2019, 02:17:04 pmI was thinking that constants are only called this way. Multiply Scaler 01 stays being called Multiply Scaler 01. Sure you may have several values of 10 in a complex network but for the purposes of explaining something simple I doubt you would have multiple constants of the same value. Even if you do, nothing stopping you plumbing out of one a couple of times.

I'm not necessarily locked to the idea and certainly don't like the idea of renaming a function node anything other than what the function is doing ie +,-,/,* etc. That's what the Notes node or written explanation is for.
No, that is a good point though.
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archonforest

Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 12:48:51 pm
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 04:48:36 am
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.

Thanx WAS. Yes my def was completely wrong...I knew it when I opened the ADD SCALAR and saw that it is an empty node waiting for an input. Thx for the example! I have a question though. In your example you used the ADD SCALAR to mix two SCALARS and have a 20m high column. As far I can see the ADD SCALAR is not really needed in this case. I just have to plug the SCALAR into the Disp part of the surface shader. Can u show another example where the ADD SCALAR is really needed in the network? My only guess is when u want to mix color/scalar/vectors?

Errr well what you do with it could be anything, now that you know how it works, being just addition of a scalar. The biggest one besides basic masks is actual mathematic formulas represented by scalar nodes and such like Hetzens Manhattan.

Let me get on my PC and I can show you something. Also nearing a point I may share the crater shader updates. Lots of add scalar in there lol
Hey WAS,
Do you have this example by any chance ready for the ADD SCALAR?
I also want to encourage the rest of the Math-Pros to contribute please.
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WAS

Quote from: archonforest on August 13, 2019, 03:29:44 am
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 12:48:51 pm
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 04:48:36 am
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.
Quote from: WASasquatch on August 11, 2019, 03:46:58 am
Quote from: archonforest on August 11, 2019, 03:05:39 amLets put things back on the rail lol. First of all I would like to keep the name if possible. Unless its triggers a huge debate in between users. We were in the ADD SCALAR part and I think we are not done with that one. Can we get more data guys? Especially the usage of it?

I had an idea what this node can do but when I opened the node I saw that I was wrong...again...lol. I thought this node actually add a number/scalar to another node that will use the number to do something...

Can we have some examples of the usage pls?

I'm fine with "Function Academy" for a forum name, it's actually clever and fun.

Also I'm confused about your interpretation of the Add Scalar function. If I take an Add Scalar, feed it a Scalar of 1, and another Scalar of 1, I have a scalar of 2. You could in fact think of the scalar as a number.

Thanx WAS. Yes my def was completely wrong...I knew it when I opened the ADD SCALAR and saw that it is an empty node waiting for an input. Thx for the example! I have a question though. In your example you used the ADD SCALAR to mix two SCALARS and have a 20m high column. As far I can see the ADD SCALAR is not really needed in this case. I just have to plug the SCALAR into the Disp part of the surface shader. Can u show another example where the ADD SCALAR is really needed in the network? My only guess is when u want to mix color/scalar/vectors?

Errr well what you do with it could be anything, now that you know how it works, being just addition of a scalar. The biggest one besides basic masks is actual mathematic formulas represented by scalar nodes and such like Hetzens Manhattan.

Let me get on my PC and I can show you something. Also nearing a point I may share the crater shader updates. Lots of add scalar in there lol
Hey WAS,
Do you have this example by any chance ready for the ADD SCALAR?
I also want to encourage the rest of the Math-Pros to contribute please.

Nope! I spaced like usual. I didn't add it to my planner (yeah I use a planner! It helps!)


I'll work on something when I wake up. I wrote it down this time.
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Oshyan

August 13, 2019, 02:19:17 pm #63 Last Edit: August 13, 2019, 09:30:25 pm by Oshyan
A quick aside guys: not sure if you wanted to/needed to quote all the previous replies. The forums now have a "quote selected" function which can be quite handy for these kinds of situations though. Just select the text in the post you want to quote/reply to, then a new button should appear *at the bottom of that post* which is "Quote selected text". Press that and it shows up at the bottom in the Quick Reply editor. Hopefully that's helpful. Now back to the regular discussion. :D

- Oshyan

WAS

August 13, 2019, 02:31:24 pm #64 Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 08:38:25 pm by WASasquatch
Quote from: Oshyan on August 13, 2019, 02:19:17 pmJust select the text in the post you want to quote/reply to, then a new button should appear *at the bottom of that post* which is "Quote selected text"

Fantastic. Though it doesn't help with back reference as to what their conversation within the larger thread is about. That's the point of back quotes.

Perhaps block-quotes could even be on a toggle beyond a certain height. May be interesting to look into.
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WAS

Here is a basic Scalar Functions visualization project. We have two patterns, vertical lines, and horizontal lines. Let's take a look at what each basic scalar function is doing with these two patterns so we can distinguish their effects. This may be helpful for some that do not understand the math functions being applied here.

Hopefully this helps you understand in a simple way what each of these functions is doing with simple shapes that are easy to comprehend.
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archonforest

August 14, 2019, 02:28:57 pm #66 Last Edit: August 14, 2019, 02:33:19 pm by archonforest
WAS you are a star. Big thanks for this in the name of all current and future TG users. Now its time to digest this data!

For all: people ask questions about these ADD functions. (if you feel like) I am sure I am not the only one who "suck on the blues" I started this for everybody. It is time to get all your questions answered.

Unless I am really the only one who suck...hehehe lol
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N-drju

I think it's time to get this topic going, so I'm gonna offer something for your consideration.

And by the way, Matt, Oshyan, how are we doing with the "Functions Academy" forum section?

Ad meritum. First of all, I'm sorry for a solely descriptive post. I do not have access to my computer right now. I will post a screen at earliest convenience.

I have started to play about with the "constant colour" node. Since blues are faster, I have this notion in my head that it would be great to have two colors and control them in a "power fractal" style. Albeit through other blue nodes.

What I have now:

1. Two constant colour nodes...
2. ...attached to a mix colour node, with...
3. ...a power fractal as a mix controller.

I think you will agree that having a power fractal as a mix controller actually defeats the purpose of building a fast, blue node network. However, for now, I can't figure out how I could achieve an adjustable, "blue noise" as a mix controller.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Oshyan

Hi N-drju, you are right to ask about a status update! Jon (Hetzen) volunteered to help us set it up and moderate it, and given his experience and ability with Function Nodes I think he's an ideal choice. So we've been talking behind the scenes with him to nail down the specifics of how to handle it. We've just about settled on how to implement and actual implementation will follow shortly!

- Oshyan

N-drju

Great news! Keep it up. It might be interesting to see what ideas and tips make their way in there.

Yesterday, I spent the afternoon learning the theory of cross product and dot product and many of these mathematical notions are relatively easy to grasp. The problem however is how one can use them in a scene, after you learn the definition.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

Oshyan

Yes, the foundational math knowledge is very important, it's step #1 which a lot of people - myself included - lack. Step #2 is how do those things work in computer graphics. From that one can often intuit how to use that capability in Terragen. But step #3 can also very reasonably be to want some education in practical applications of these tools. But I think the latter should ideally be built on steps #1 and #2. I'm glad you have been diving into that. :)

- Oshyan

N-drju

Oh really? Because I thought you are one of them John Nash types. ;)

You are right that steps 1 and 2 are fundamental. Step #3 may as well just come down to own experimentation, since one already has the theoretical knowledge to set a node network up.

Not sure if this example applies... But once you get to know what "feature scale", "noise variation" and colour sliders are, you don't usually need any education to use Power Fractal. You just jump right to it.

I strongly believe, that the new forum section should be focused on step #2 - how mathematical notions, enchanted in the blue nodes, correspond to CG features like terrain, colour control etc.

Certainly not #1, since nobody would be willing to teach us trigonometry and algebra here... Which I understand.

I am especially proud of the fact that I attempt to defeat my fears of going back to maths after I sucked at it in high school so much... I can seriously say that some of the basic algebraic / geometric notions can really be understood even by anti-talents like me. Terms like "scalar" or "vector" are a cakewalk.
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

archonforest

Thanx Andrew to restarting this topic. I was off for 2 weeks and I hoped that I will find lots of things here when I will be back. Hmm...
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N-drju

Quote from: archonforest on September 02, 2019, 03:32:28 amThanx Andrew to restarting this topic. I was off for 2 weeks and I hoped that I will find lots of things here when I will be back. Hmm...

My pleasure. Don't feel down for the seemingly slow developments on this topic. I think many people were simply away for vacation. Maybe things will start to pick up soon.

Besides, it is sort of natural for any topic to slowly die off. But, once the "Function Academy" is set, we will not be needing this topic anyway.

As you can see, the guys are in touch to make this project take shape. Thus, hopefully, we will not loose momentum. Meanwhile, we can do our share and learn some algebra. ;) It's not that tough as long as you stay focused and rested.

I just hope this project will take shape relatively soon without too much delay. Otherwise, I'm coming at you guys... and I swear I'll arccos your luminance to scalar.
:P
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"

N-drju

Every step is important. No matter how small:

step1,5.jpg
"This year - a factory of semiconductors. Next year - a factory of whole conductors!"