vue - Spectral Atmospheres 2

Started by reck, August 13, 2008, 01:50:09 PM

Previous topic - Next topic

Confusoid

This is why TG2 needs multiple internal light scattering. That's were is lacks at the moment.

Xpleet

#151
Quote from: Gone on August 16, 2008, 06:39:06 AM
Quote from: reck on August 16, 2008, 05:57:27 AM
lol I think xpleet was just joking.

Well, if that was the case then perhaps i am too much of an old clam for my age.     ;D

No you're not.


My point back then was that real clouds are very soft in their internal shadows, Terragen² instead renders those shadows like stone while Vue7 preserves the softness in shadow even when you crank up the sharpness slider.



I just took some preset cloud-scene and adjusted these clouds just a little, the sharpness slider is to the max (affects lighting only, not shape). As you can see though, the shadows are nice and smooth and non-blobby just like in real world.

render time: 6 minutes 2 seconds (Q6700@3,2ghz)




Vue 7's new Spectral II atmos and clouds (I think they improved the nodes) have not only stepped up to the plate of TG2 clouds but also does it now render much faster than Vue6 and is compatible with Mentalray to use together in 3dsMax and alikes.

I hope Terragen² too can come up with a new scale of speed.

FrankB

thank you, xpleet, for this example. It clearly shows that you are right in that vue7 clouds have stepped up to TG2.
There is some grain in the clouds, maybe this can be helped by increasing a qualiy parameter of some sort. However, this being rendered in just a few minutes is a benchmark to aim for in TG2.
I would assume the reason for being so much faster in not necessarily in "better code", but most probably in a different render strategy that takes quite a few shortcuts, is maybe less accurate than TG2, and so on, but eventually delivers much higher render speeds while still looking nice.

I wish there will be a few setting in TG2 that will allow the renderer to take some of those shortcuts in the atmosphere and clouds, too. User configurable, wold be my vote. For example, when you want beams of light from e.g. trees casting shadows onto some fog, you need a crazy amount of samples to not get grain in the render. I would like to have a "beams" shader of some sort that creates hose sunbeams without relying on the sampling method.
Vue7 must clearly use some shortcuts like these in their renderer. This is a "dangerous" venture, though. At least in the past, those simplifications have led to less realistic renders with Vue, I believe.

Frank


Seth

i am still not impress by the clouds you show us... sorry...
strange shape middle, middle-left part, lot of grain...
that's definitely better than Vue 6 but I am not sure it reaches TG2 quality yet...

PG

Yeah and that large cloud formation by TG2 is done with extreme settings. Those clouds are about 5x larger and thicker than the Vue clouds you posted. I agree with seth. It's better than Vue 6 but not close to TG2
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

rcallicotte

I think the Vue lighting is usually more realistic looking in clouds, though some exceptions. Nevertheless, until I try the newest release with clouds, I can't say the same for TG2 - the clouds generally look less than believable in lighting.  Otherwise, I have no complaint with TG2.  The shapes and control in TG2 are very good.  But, the Out of the Box experience with lighting in clouds leaves me wishing for more.

I love TG2, but can't defend the cloud lighting.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

Xpleet

#156
Here another one, preset cloudset but this time untouched and rendered at optimized settings in 1024x768, took 7 minutes 58 seconds. Godrays inc.

The clouds are 30% sharp, still sharper than most of the time in nature I think. I rendered them at 10% again and found that it looked much more natural.

PorcupineFloyd

I've found that Vue does better job in rendering dense clouds which occlude the sun when it's positioned in the front. The clouds really look like they are blocking the light and this subtle effect of sunlight bleeding above and below them is also captured. It's hard to achieve in Terragen.

sjefen

I don't wanna be an ashole, but hey. Don't tell me those clouds look realistic.
They look like they where taken from a cartoon movie or something. They would have been ok in a Pixar movie.

Also.... the height of those are still not very impessive and that's probbably why the rendertime is acceptable.
I'll do some testing with TG2 and see if I can make something similar to those and see what rendertimes are like. I'll post the results here :)

- Terje
ArtStation: https://www.artstation.com/royalt

AMD Ryzen Threadripper 1950X
128 GB RAM
GeForce RTX 3060 12GB

PG

And look underneath on the darker cloud. See those oily patches that you get? Exactly the same as really dense TG2 clouds. Snap! ;D
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

Seth

@sjefen and PG : thanks ! I didn't say anythng because I don't want to sound like a fanboy... but damn... the last clouds really look like... Vue clouds ;D

PG

Fanboys FTW!! ;D Vue's strengths are its physics system and possibly it's terrain, although I've never really made any headway with terrain in Vue so I couldn't really say that for certain. But TG2s strengths are most certainly the lighting and atmosphere, without a doubt. Well apart from the vue fanboys ;D
Figured out how to do clicky signatures

Tangled-Universe

Regardless how those Vue-clouds look, if we're all being truly honest TG2 will not (never say never) render similar clouds with relatively same quality at that size in 8 minutes.

Seth

yeah ! but what the point ?
I mean 8 minutes for crap... it's fast, but it's still crap ;)
terrain in Vue are crappy too...
the ultimate strengths of Vue (IMO) are versatility, ecosystem, fast renderer and user friendly interace.

Tangled-Universe

True, but if I remember correctly some people stated TG2 was able to render better clouds than these AND faster too...and the latter is what I do not believe and tried to explain.
Of course TG2 clouds are better :)