Elections in France

[TheBadger]

Have been hearing a lot of news about the presidential election in US news.

Frankly its a little strange to hear so much about a european election, other than that it is happening and who is running. And even stranger is that the news has been rather impartial, just the facts really.

So can any one in this community, who is in france or in europe tell me whats going on? I need an opinion fix!

[Chinaski]

Sorry, my English is not good enough to talk about politics.

Just a factual thing: French "socialistes" are center left, not communists like I've read in some NYTimes comments at the time of Strauss Kahn case. For exemple: An importante part of the "privatisations" (when a governemental business go to private sector) in France was made by the socialistes (and in my point of view, if it was a good thing for business, it was not a good thing for people wallet, but that is an other debate).

And yes, Marine Lepen (and Front National) result is disturbing/worrying (I don't know which of these term is the stronger).

Maybe you can link here some of the US news you saw, and another french dude, who speak a perfect english, may comment them (There are so many lack of understanding, disagreement, bashing, between US UK and French... Be a little more specific on topic can't be wrong).

[Seth]

Sarkozy = Republicans
Hollande = Democrates
Le Pen = Right side of Republicans, Tea Party
Melenchon = Communists (!)

We'll have either Hollande or Sarkozy as a president.
We'll be under foreign banks' attacks whatever the result will be, because of our debt (which is far less important than the english or US' one)
And nothing will really change in our country. We are following Greece, and obviously, in few years, we'll sink.
But don't be jealous, USA will sink too
USA have a debt of 15 000 thousands billions dollars, which represents 99% of your incomes. And you now are in debt with China, who bought your debt back (well a part of it)
Anyway... in 2 weeks will have a new president, or not, and our life won't change.

And I disagree with Chinasky. I don't think Le Pen results are disturbing, they are absolutely normal and the result of 30 years of immigrationist politic. Some french people live in very bad area, poor and unemployed. and with time, the original white catholic french (that is rude and simplified version of our history uh), have been "colonised" by all the immigration's waves.
That means that a lot of places in all the big cities suburbs are now,  the place where live immigrants that are, in majority, muslim from North Africa.If you are white, you are a minority.
Plus the fact that the last 30 years, we heard our gvts telling french people that we are supposed to change of our way of life to the way of life of the new imcoming people.
they don't need to accept the french way of life, they can just continue to live as they did before, and the french people have to accept it. Otherwise, they are racists !!!!
So, I don't think it is disturbing that Le Pen had such a high score, it is normal and our politics did exactly the job needed for her to be so high in this elections.

Oh, and I do not vote !  F#CK THIS SYSTEM !

And even stranger is that the news has been rather impartial, just the facts really.

That is not what I read on some papers from USA. They don't even know Hollande and call him "the socialist", and we all know this is not a very good way to be called in the US
not mentioning the fact that Hollande wants us out of Afghanistan as quickly as possible (which is good, we never should have follow the USA, again, in a war), and that creates a deep relationships problems between our 2 countries.

[rcallicotte]

Franck, you should just make a movie and get it over with.   

[Seth]

Franck, you should just make a movie and get it over with.   

[TheBadger]

Hey guys, thanks!
I'm afraid I don't think I can get to specific with my questions, I just don't know enough of French life to ask but general questions.

I am just interested because France and the the U.S. have similar fundamental views of liberty and freedom. Our revolutions occurring in the same age, for example. Though I am aware of some fundamental differences.

I think there are a lot of similarities between our intellectual voices too, where ideologies are concerned. So I was looking at the the news in france for ideas about what the debates here will sound like (not specifics, just general stuff).

Hey Seth,
On what you wrote about Le Pen:

Its interesting! France has always had difficulties with Islam. Anyone remember a man called Charlemagne? maybe he will return! He's one of my favorite historical figures, so any chance to mention him 

By the way, I also agree with you on your outlook, of Frances and Americas economic futures. We are all completely screwed! The trouble is, history shows nations don't go quietly into the night. There will be more war.

Seth and Chinaski-
I would not read the NYT, unless you are running for office your self , anyway, don't read the opinion section, its written by ass hats, and wont give you a good idea of what most Americas think about anything.

Thanks for letting me hear what some real people in france think.


*Oh one more thing...
On the issue of poor people in france. I have only seen photos and commentary on this during the paris riots a while back. But I have to say, if the images on the news were accurate, the rioters did not really look poor. But I don't know the truth of this...
Those neighborhoods were beautiful! If you want to see ugly poverty visit some neighborhoods in Chicago. (wear a bullet proof jacket when you visit )

[AP]

I never voted myself either, even early on i always thought the system was run by the establishment of either party but was to young to put into detail. Used to be a Neo-Con and i did not even know it.     Now i know if Ron Paul does not win and give us back our freedoms were doomed and honestly i do not think there is any place better to live overall on the entire planet. The people here are waking up though and know we have been ruled by big government far to long. Mostly younger folks but the older folks like myself have enough common sense to see what is going on as well. This system here in the US is not sustainable and must be changed.

[ndeewolfwood]

And yes, Marine Lepen (and Front National) result is disturbing/worrying (I don't know which of these term is the stronger).

what i think we need to do about it : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cTUDXLKI3LY

I'm so tired how left and right wings try to excuse people who vote FN. It's like to be blind. It's not a despair vote.
Mass racism coming back in our country that's the all thing.
Sarkosy and Ump have a lot of responsability in this.

DAmm 20 % shame on us.

The only country with more than 20% is Autria i think.

Shame on us.

And don't talk to me about Goldwin point !!!!!!!


 

[Tyrcrash]

Ah, c'est en train de tourner au débat franco-français ici!

@Seth: Juste, quand même, quelque chose, que je peux difficilement laisser passer, le Front de Gauche (Mélanchon pour nos amis anglophone) ce n'est pas QUE les communistes, c'est la réunion de plusieurs partis. Politiquement, il sont, évidemment plus à gauche que Hollande mais de là à les réduire au simple "communistes"...
Je passe aussi sur les considérations de "couleurs", c'est peut-être le fait que ce soit en anglais mais ça passe mal. Le soit-disant "creuset" à la française marchant plutôt mal, les immigrés restent entre eux.

Par contre j'ai un doute pour les Etats-Unis, le fait qu'il soit extrèmement endettés ce n'est pas une de leur stratégie économique? (en tout cas c'est ce qu'on apprend en cour de géographie)  . Après, rien ne dit que leur système ne puisse pas arrivé à saturation.

Après même si je me fait pas vraiment d'illusion, quelque soit l'élus (l'emballage changera avec un peu de chance et se serait quand même bien plus agréable à l'oeil), je pense qu'il faut voter, ne serait ce parce que que si on ne le fait pas, après on est mal positionné pour râler.

Désolé si mon ton peut sembler parfois trop didactique, mais il faut que nos amis anglais suivent un minimum^^

Oh, that's about to turn the Franco-French debate here!

@ Seth: anyway, something that I can hardly pass up, the Left Front (Mélanchon for our English friends) it's not THAT the Communists, is a combination of several parties. Politically, there are obviously more left than Holland but then to reduce them to simply "communist" ...
I also pass on considerations of "color" is perhaps the fact that it is in English but it goes wrong. The so-called "melting pot" French walking rather badly, immigrants keep to themselves.

Other side, I have a question for the United States, the fact that it is extremely indebted not one of their economic strategy? (at least that's what we learned in court of Geography) . After, nothing says that their system can not reached saturation.

After even if I did not really illusion, whatever the elected officials (the packaging will change with a little luck and would still be much more pleasing to the eye), I think we should vote, not is it because if it does not, it is poorly positioned to complain about.

Sad if my tone may seem sometimes too didactic, but we need our English friends after a minimum ^ ^

Google translate.

[AP]

Our national debt is the main reason we need to alter the current establishment (both parties) because spending, taxing and printing more money only increases the debt. The way we run our economic system is completely backwards. Government has a horrible track record of how it spends our money. We are better equip at spending our own money then the bureaucrats are. The people should keep the fruits of there labor, not some centralized entity. Historically, the bigger the governments become, the more the people suffer, the more freedoms are stripped away and the wider the gap between the rich and poor becomes.

[TheBadger]

@Tyrcrash

Other side, I have a question for the United States, the fact that it is extremely indebted not one of their economic strategy?

Who really knows? But I tend to think it is the result of greed and stupidity, rather than evil genius! But yes, there are a lot of people in the states who think all of this is planed. Black helicopter and prison camps in the near future.

but we need our English friends after a minimum

We are not just your friends, we are your cousins! Is there anyone in Europe who doubts that Americans would bleed for Europe? We even die for people who hate us (Iraq, Afghanistan). And don't give me any crap about oil. None of the marines who died over there did it for a better deal on gas!

It sounds to me (based on what you guys are telling me) that like in the U.S, the problem is not about Race (though some try to make it so) the problems are about culture.
A culture cannot survive the mass influx of different world views. The one will always give way to the other.

@ChrisC
I like your hope and optimism. But I think its time to except that we have jumped from a plain without a parachute. Gravity will pull us down to the rocks below.

Welcome to servitude.

[AP]

I will always have hope. Honestly i see more and more that the American people are waking up finally and see that this system is not working out. Sure there may be a few bumps in the road along the way but worse case scenario we start over and keep things simple, the way they used to be. There will be pain as first but the wounds can heal. Europe might be inspired to follow that way as well. Not by forced corersion, not by occupying other countries, not by rigging the system but by what inspires us to be free and prosper.

[Seth]

I won't go into political debate, but Tyrcrash, even if you learn in geography that it is their economic strategy to be so much into debt (hahahaha) I just want you to remember that in the USA 45.8 million people need food stamps to survive !!!
And if China didn't buy part of the american debt some time ago they would already be dead by now.

Oh, and Badger, if Iraq and Afghanistan hate the USA is because USA killed them first.
in Iraq, just because of the embargo, more than 500 000 children died. That is not being the nice guy, uh.

[TheBadger]

I won't go into political debate, but Tyrcrash, even if you learn in geography that it is their economic strategy to be so much into debt (hahahaha) I just want you to remember that in the USA 45.8 million people need food stamps to survive !!!
And if China didn't buy part of the american debt some time ago they would already be dead by now.

Oh, and Badger, if Iraq and Afghanistan hate the USA is because USA killed them first.
in Iraq, just because of the embargo, more than 500 000 children died. That is not being the nice guy, uh.

I think there is some truth in what your saying Seth, but also some exaggeration.
The embargoes do not keep food from the mouths of children, the governments do that. Think of North Korea. while the people starve, the "fearless leader" plays xbox and eats a feast. The people are thin, but he is fat.

[Seth]

I am not the only one  saying the embargo killed children, UNICEF said that.
and the real number, by then, was between 500 000 to 1 300 000 children killed because of the embargo.
that is not exageration, that is a fact.
And it is always easier to say that it is because of "the enemy" that people are dying, it allows us to sleep better.
I am not naive anymore. Our nice "democratic" countries, kill people to steal ressources, not to free people.