Steve Jobs 1955-2011 RIP

Started by TheBadger, October 05, 2011, 08:12:52 pm

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TheBadger

It has been eaten.

Seth


matrix2003

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-MATRIX2003-      ·DHV·  ....·´¯`*
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otakar

God, I hate cancer! RIP, Steve. Never owned an apple product, but used plenty of them that were inspired by S. Jobs and his company....

Seth

I would have an iPad if it would have a USB port and would not cost so much money, so I have an Archos.
I would have an iPod if the sound was very good and if I wouldn't need to install iTunes and such bad software to use it, so I have a SONY.
I would have a Mac if I could play my games on it, and if it would not cost that much money, so I have a PC.
I would have an iPhone, but I will never spend 600 Euros on a phone, so I have a Samsung.

What is good in Apple ?

1- their design (definitely not from Steve Jobs, hu ?)
2- their commercial politics (they have been able to sell useless, expensive stuff to people, by making them believe they will be different and will look smart and cool)
3- their fanboys (always defending Apple products, worshipping Steve Jobs as the messiah, and allowing us, not fanboys, to have a good laugh on them)

I am "sad" because Steve Jobs died and he was a clever guy, with inspiring speeches... and he has a family and all...

But c'mon guys, look at the way Apple get their business done in China for example... and that is Steve Jobs responsability :)

anyway...

RIP Steve Jobs

cyphyr

RIP Steve, If it were not for you my PC would not be so good.
A shame but true.
Richard
www.richardfraser.co.uk
https://www.facebook.com/RichardFraserVFX/
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Ryzen 9 3900X @3.79Ghz, 64Gb (TG4 benchmark 6:20)
i7 5930K @3.5Ghz, 32Gb (TG4 benchmark 13.44)

rcallicotte

You're right.

What a way to go, though.  Crap.


Quote from: Seth on October 06, 2011, 12:35:28 pm
I would have an iPad if it would have a USB port and would not cost so much money, so I have an Archos.
I would have an iPod if the sound was very good and if I wouldn't need to install iTunes and such bad software to use it, so I have a SONY.
I would have a Mac if I could play my games on it, and if it would not cost that much money, so I have a PC.
I would have an iPhone, but I will never spend 600 Euros on a phone, so I have a Samsung.

What is good in Apple ?

1- their design (definitely not from Steve Jobs, hu ?)
2- their commercial politics (they have been able to sell useless, expensive stuff to people, by making them believe they will be different and will look smart and cool)
3- their fanboys (always defending Apple products, worshipping Steve Jobs as the messiah, and allowing us, not fanboys, to have a good laugh on them)

I am "sad" because Steve Jobs died and he was a clever guy, with inspiring speeches... and he has a family and all...

But c'mon guys, look at the way Apple get their business done in China for example... and that is Steve Jobs responsability :)

anyway...

RIP Steve Jobs

So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

FrankB

Quote from: Seth on October 06, 2011, 12:35:28 pm
...
3- their fanboys (always defending Apple products, worshipping Steve Jobs as the messiah, and allowing us, not fanboys, to have a good laugh on them)


I always find it a little insulting if people like you, who have no use for apple products, call people like me a "fanboy", just because contrairy to you I have use for certain apple products.
To clarify, I am not a fan of anything. I use a macbook for work because its battery lasts forever and the usability of the hardware (e.g. the multi touch pad) and applications and the OS is second to none for my work style. That's just a fact and doesn't make me a mindless zombie fan.
Also, you don't have to have a laugh on me or anyone else because of this. I'm pretty certain that most users of apple products are similarly objective regarding their work tools of choice. Please note that nobody dizzes you because of your choice of tools either. Live and let live.

Frank

Tangled-Universe

Frank, I'm not sure if Franck considers every Apple user also an Apple Fanboy, it's not 1:1.
That's my truth anyway if I speak for myself. I know plenty people, like you, who find good use and advantages using some Apple products over non-Apple products.
However, in contrary to fanboys like my laboratory head chief, they do not try to convince you to use Apple-stuff, do not look down upon non-Apple products and don't blindly believe Apple invents everything (a bit similar to nowadays teenagers singing along covers of songs, of which they don't realize it actually is a cover).
They're "just" making slick looking and especially very cleverly designed/chosen user-experience.

rcallicotte

Ditto.  I didn't mean to take the "fanboy" approach.  But, IT has some issues, not exclusive to Apple, like slave labor, etc.  I've considered getting an Apple myself, but it just didn't work according to my plan.  Another thing someone close to me exposed about Steve Jobs - most of our present PC innovations were in part (if not completely) inspired by something Apple did or was thinking about doing.  He was an innovator and maybe wasn't as wicked as some want him to be.  I sometimes think people in the limelight are easy targets; in this case, he probably was.



Quote from: Tangled-Universe on October 09, 2011, 06:56:09 am
Frank, I'm not sure if Franck considers every Apple user also an Apple Fanboy, it's not 1:1.
That's my truth anyway if I speak for myself. I know plenty people, like you, who find good use and advantages using some Apple products over non-Apple products.
However, in contrary to fanboys like my laboratory head chief, they do not try to convince you to use Apple-stuff, do not look down upon non-Apple products and don't blindly believe Apple invents everything (a bit similar to nowadays teenagers singing along covers of songs, of which they don't realize it actually is a cover).
They're "just" making slick looking and especially very cleverly designed/chosen user-experience.
So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

DutchDimension

It's been my experience over the 8 years of being a Mac user (after being on Windows for nearly a decade) that anti-Mac individuals are usually the ones to initiate the fight. Point in case: Seth's inappropriate and bigotry laden post in a thread meant to pay final respects to a great man. Why do this?

Seth, I could point out the fallacies in your post with great ease, but your arguments appear so trite I don't think you'd ever see reason.
So out of respect for this thread and this forum, I'll refrain from doing so and simply ask you to show some respect for those who choose differently than you. You are not the authority on what constitutes right or wrong in consumer electronics. Try to understand that.

Seth

hey Frank !
I was talking about Apple fanboys, not Apple users ^^
and they are two different things indeed.
Fanboys are the kind of people who will buy every new iProducts just because it is fashionable, Frank. not because it is useful.
Buying stuff to use them because they work better than another one, it is just being smart, not being a fanboy.
anyway... :D

@DutchDimension : why posting this ? because some people like me are just so tired to hear about Steve Jobs as the messiah in the press, TV, etc...
I agree he was a great business man but cut it with the great man blablabla :)
He did used cheap workers in China for us westerners to have those great iCrap everywhere, not even caring about the suicides and everything.
I agree : he was great business man, and he took great decision for Apple.
but that is all. he was not Einstein, nor Da Vinci.
Anyway, don't get me wrong DD, I don't hate Steve Jobs, nor I love Bill Gates. I see that Mac can be great for 2D jobs for example. but well... I don't like the interface and even trying TG2 on a Mac was not as good as on PC from my experience.
But as you said, I don't think I'll change my mind on PC?Mac subject nor on Steve Jobs (maybe on S.Jobs... but i really didn't enjoy using a mac)
That said, you are right : I am not the authority on what constitutes right or wrong in consumer electronics. But I don't think you are neither.
And that is not because a guy died, a guy I didn't even know personnally, that I don't even buy products from, that I will just cry outloud everywhere with everybody, faking sadness and telling everybody he was the best of us all... (see what I mean)
Anyway...

rcallicotte

This is really a problem and it includes HP and others like Dell as well, unless they have changed their policies.  GE's CEO was on last night's "60 Minutes" explaining why it was great that 60% of his company's work and employees were outside of the U.S. and now he sits on the council of the U.S. President for helping the U.S. economy.  I'd say I'm stupid if I don't get it.  He doesn't care about the U.S.  He cares about his pocketbook - it's what a person does; not what they say.




Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am

He did used cheap workers in China for us westerners to have those great iCrap everywhere, not even caring about the suicides and everything.

So this is Disney World.  Can we live here?

DutchDimension

October 10, 2011, 07:23:58 am #13 Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 07:27:11 am by DutchDimension
Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am
He did used cheap workers in China for us westerners to have those great iCrap everywhere


I guarantee you, many of the products in your house, the very computer you render your TG scenes on, will have been made to some degree by cheap workers in China.
Steve Jobs over the years has tried very hard indeed (and at great cost) to have his products made in the USA. (Look up NeXT and their factory in Fremont, California) It was rival companies making cheap PC's in the East that eventually nearly forced NeXT (and by extension Apple) into bankruptcy. So if you feel the need to lay blame over the situation in China, you might want to take a history lesson first.

And calling it iCrap? Really? How old are you?

Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am
...not even caring about the suicides and everything.


You know this for a fact? You don't... so let me provide you with some facts then.
Much of the information the media has on the labour issues at Foxconn, Wintek, etc. have been brought to light by Apple themselves through their 'Supplier responsibility reviews' which looks at the working conditions at these factories. As you can see, they make the results of these reviews publicly available. They have in the past terminated business entirely with factories found to be in violation of working regulations. Apple has also funded and launched training programs to avoid a repeat of the hiring of workers under the age of 16 (which is the minimum age in China btw).
Furthermore it has been pointed out that the rate of suicide amongst Foxconn employees is actually lower than that of the national Chinese rate. Read more about that little nugget of information here.

Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am
I agree : he was great business man, and he took great decision for Apple.
but that is all. he was not Einstein, nor Da Vinci.


That's for history to decide.

Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am
Anyway, don't get me wrong DD, I don't hate Steve Jobs, nor I love Bill Gates. I see that Mac can be great for 2D jobs for example. but well... I don't like the interface and even trying TG2 on a Mac was not as good as on PC from my experience.
But as you said, I don't think I'll change my mind on PC?Mac subject nor on Steve Jobs (maybe on S.Jobs... but i really didn't enjoy using a mac)
That said, you are right : I am not the authority on what constitutes right or wrong in consumer electronics. But I don't think you are neither.


Exactly, I'm not. And I'm fully aware of that. That's why you won't see me jumping into a thread like this thinking myself superior because I chose differently. To quote Steve Wozniak (the other Apple co-founder):

"I've never been one of those people that takes a big, strong side. Macintosh versus PC. Hey, my preferred machine, the one I'm comfortable with, is a Macintosh, and I've got my reasons, and they're good reasons. But I don't try to apply them to everyone else."

I think you could learn from that.

Quote from: Seth on October 10, 2011, 05:26:55 am
And that is not because a guy died, a guy I didn't even know personnally, that I don't even buy products from, that I will just cry outloud everywhere with everybody, faking sadness and telling everybody he was the best of us all... (see what I mean)
Anyway...


You could have just taken a higher moral stance and refrained from posting entirely. Instead you came here all riled up, guns blazing, keen to belittle Apple customers, and worse, spit on a man's grave. Totally unnecessary.

Seth

October 10, 2011, 07:57:27 am #14 Last Edit: October 10, 2011, 08:29:52 am by Seth
QuoteI guarantee you, many of the products in your house, the very computer you render your TG scenes on, will have been made to some degree by cheap workers in China.


Absolutely !!! but I don't worship the brand's boss for that.

QuoteAnd calling it iCrap? Really? How old are you?


35, thank you.
want to patronize me, maybe ?

QuoteMuch of the information the media has on the labour issues at Foxconn, Wintek, etc. have been brought to light by Apple themselves through their 'Supplier responsibility reviews' which looks at the working conditions at these factories.


come on and be honest about that ! Apple has been forced to produced this document.
and even then, in response to the suicides, workers were forced to sign a legally binding document guaranteeing that they would not kill themselves...

QuoteApple has also funded and launched training programs to avoid a repeat of the hiring of workers under the age of 16 (which is the minimum age in China btw).


In 2011 Apple admitted that its child labor practices in China had worsened. Not great news I guess.

QuoteTo quote Steve Wozniak


Steve Jobs didn't really set the direction of my Apple I and Apple II designs but he did the more important part of turning them into a product that would change the world. I don't deny that.

QuoteYou could have just taken a higher moral stance and refrained from posting entirely.


I could have done that, yes.
but I am not into this morale thing...
And I am not spitting on his grave, I just want to point that he was just a man, not some gourou, perfect in everything and blablabla...



Now, that said, you should just take a deep breath.
you are actually reading a post, in a thread, on internet.
we are all here to talk freely about almost everything we want to.
you disagree with my opinion, that is okay for me.
just try not to patronize me. Asking for age this way, for example just didn't help people to rationalize their thought  (that was what you asked) but keeps them being emotionally picked up.
and yes, I do think that a majority of the products are iCrap (sorry)
iTunes is just bad to me, and for example if you want to upload some music from my computer on your iPod, you can't because I don't have iTunes. but if I want to upload music from your mac on my SONY, i can because it is just USB...
Same for the iPad2 : come on !!! no USB ?! at this price ???

anyway you said :
QuoteThat's why you won't see me jumping into a thread like this thinking myself superior because I chose differently.


mmmmh... I never said I was superior because i use PC...
and honestly...
I just feel like you did exactly the opposite of what you said. jumping in and talking like The Professor to his stupid student :)