Sub surface scattering again...

Started by Hannes, November 26, 2014, 06:42:58 am

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Dune

It's a bit orange on my monitor too.

Hannes

Strange. It's just the texture that comes with the object. No tinting at all.
The sun's elevation is at 25. I don't know if the redsky decay, which is at the default 2.5 has an influence here?!

The animation is still running. 12 minutes per frame with already calculated GI cache. This is quite high, but worth the waiting imho.
When this is done, I'll do some colour tests with the texture map. Besides I found that the head is unnaturally bumpy, where the stubbles are, so I'll probably have to smooth the mesh there (see attached image).

j meyer

Maybe the orangey tone is due to the fact that TG is possibly
not optimized for rendering skin in the first place.
But there are always differences between renderers.You can find
lots of skin shading threads.Some of them use this head,like this
one for example: http://www.cgfeedback.com/cgfeedback/showthread.php?t=4876
You can find more threads on this subject there,too.
Or the threads on skin shading with the free head scan of and from Lee Perry
Smith (triplegangers).
Complex matter methinks.

TheBadger

you know, I think the default skin render looks better here than in vray for c4d as in your link. That is kinda nice I think. More natural light and result here, orange or not.  8)

And now that I see a human model of this quality in TG, I am more convinced than ever that we need to be able to have Ultra complex animated models in TG! I mean just look at it here!!

By the way. The links are showing the model with teeth and the eyes open. Are there two models or did they alter the model? The teeth looked pretty good I thought. Just curious if they are scanned or hand made.
It has been eaten.

j meyer

There are two models of that guy.Both are cleaned up scans.
From the earlier days of Ten24.Done with a camera rig in con-
junction with Agisoft Photoscan iirc.
You can find more on their websites blog.

And yes,I agree TG renders look more natural in general with
just the default settings.One reason I like to use TG as a
renderer.

Hannes

I think the orange tone that some of us are talking about is probably no problem at all. Altering the diffuse map should be a piece of cake.

The links you mentioned, Jochen, are really great. But once again I had the impression, that very often skin shaders in other 3D apps look way too waxy. Like they want to show how powerful their SSS-shader is. Unless you want to rebuilt some contents of Madame Tussaud's, it should be more subtle in my opinion.

It's really great to have this fantastic detailed model here to play with. It already looks great just with an ordinary shader that contains only the diffuse map. But of course adding a little bit SSS here and there is the icing on the cake.

(Rendering frame 173 of 200 now)

TheBadger

Hey Hannes, how are you at rigging and weighting, animating? That model would also make a great test object for bringing in an animated character. Either by obj sequences, or hopefully soon an even better new way.

Maybe not today, but soon someone who has the knowledge will have to break this ground. As far as I know no one has done an animated figure in TG yet. And now that you have provided a way to do some sss. Well is a sequence not the next step?

Not rushing you man!  ;D but seriously, after this, then what is the next level? What is the next thing we need to figure out to extend TGs range? I think that if we follow how its done in other apps after skin comes bones and then weighting and animating. Just something I dream about  ;)
It has been eaten.

Matt

Quote from: Hannes on December 06, 2014, 04:30:15 am
Besides I found that the head is unnaturally bumpy, where the stubbles are, so I'll probably have to smooth the mesh there (see attached image).


Maybe it's OK for the specular, but the diffuse looks too bumpy because there's no subsurface scattering. You shouldn't notice these tiny bumps in the diffuse because light scatters through them in real life, but they do affect the specular.

Then again, they do look too bumpy even for the specular.

Matt
Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Hannes

Creating a sophisticated animation in TG is a lot more demanding than creating a (fake) SSS shader. I rigged, weighted and animated (imported a motion file) a character a few times, but I wasn't very good at it. However I'd love to do that in TG. But at the moment I don't see any way to do this except importing object sequences, unless it's a very simple object like the toad I used in my "I want to believe"-animation.

Matt, I really think the head is bumpy there, because the scanner wasn't hires enough to get each hair stubble correctly. The sideview shows the displacement there.

Matt

Just because milk is white doesn't mean that clouds are made of milk.

Oshyan

I think we need a phrenologist...

- Oshyan

bobbystahr

something borrowed,
something Blue.
Ring out the Old.
Bring in the New
Bobby Stahr, Paracosmologist

Hannes

 ;D ;D ;D
Ok, here is the animation. As I already said the nose is still a tiny little bit glowing, but to me it looks OK. I mentioned the bumpiness already, but all in all I think that the SSS-effect somehow works.

j meyer

Great result man!  8)
As for the bumps I think they are due to the hair on the actual guy.
Should be a bit more than just stubbles.It's not only in the back,but
everywhere where there is supposed to be hair.
And when cleaning up the scan you have to find a solution for that area.
Moreover many people tend to use 3D hair on top of it and then it might
even look slightly more real.

The waxiness is indeed something you can see in many renders all over
the web.That's probably why there are so many threads about this topic.
From my point of view subsurfscattering is really over-estimated,especially
in the movie and video-game fandom/fan communities.Their heroes have it,
so they have to have it,too.And thus there are thousands of glowing blobs
to be seen on every cg forum.SSS and three point lighting,hooray!
Just my opinion.

Hannes

Thanks Jochen. To me the model looks good except the areas where his head hair would be if he'd have some...
So I loaded the model into Max, chose the appropriate vertices by soft selection and applied a relax modifier, which doesn't subdivide the mesh unnecassarily, but smoothes it. I imported it into TG and rendered it.
Looks crappy. See attached image.
Now it's too smooth. There has to be some skin pores texture or whatever. I'll keep on working!