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General => Terragen Discussion => Topic started by: blinkfrog on November 03, 2017, 09:14:19 AM

Title: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 03, 2017, 09:14:19 AM
Hello,

I am pleased to present my new plugin for Terragen: Classic Erosion  (https://daniilkamperov.com/classic-erosion)

[attachimg=1 width=800]
Image courtesy of Ulco Glimmerveen

It is powerful heightmap-based erosion shader, simulating realistic fluvial and thermal erosion and also including rivers mode. Traditional heightmap-based approach allows fast rendering, unlike my procedural erosion shader.

[attachimg=2 width=800]
Image courtesy of Martin Huisman

[attachimg=3 width=800]
Image courtesy of Ulco Glimmerveen

[attachimg=4 width=800]
Image courtesy of Ulco Glimmerveen

Classic Erosion plugin is available for Windows as both free and commercial editions. Free version may be used only for non-commercial purposes, and has limited heightmap resolution. Commercial version is available for $25.

Sorry, no Mac version yet. As soon as Terragen SDK for Mac will be ready, I'll start to work at macOS version.

Detailed description and more picture examples are on my site: https://daniilkamperov.com (https://daniilkamperov.com)

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: AP on November 03, 2017, 09:54:38 AM
Thank you very much for the work that went into this plugin.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: digitalguru on November 03, 2017, 10:03:46 AM
Looks great, does this output masks to shade the erosion? and what is the max height field limit for the free version?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 03, 2017, 10:25:38 AM
Looks great, does this output masks to shade the erosion? and what is the max height field limit for the free version?
Yes, plugin outputs masks into RGB channels, which can be split using "red/green/blue to scalar" functions.
Heighmap resolution is limited to 1024 in free version.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 03, 2017, 10:30:12 AM
Besides maps, it also can be masked and controlled by other shaders. For example, here is how volcano can be created if to control erosion by simple shape shader:

[attach=1]

I haven't wrote user manual yet, but I'll try to describe in short how to use the plugin, possibly in this weekend.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: AP on November 03, 2017, 11:32:26 AM
Is the procedural erosion shader no longer going to be developed?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 03, 2017, 11:51:55 AM
Is the procedural erosion shader no longer going to be developed?
Well, in fact I did some research and development in procedural erosion (attached pics of procedural approach), but further development requires too much time and efforts. I still hope to return to it.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on November 03, 2017, 12:20:52 PM
Thanks!  Bought it already, looks great.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on November 03, 2017, 04:49:50 PM
Looks great, does this output masks to shade the erosion? and what is the max height field limit for the free version?

Heighmap resolution is limited to 1024 in free version.

Daniil.

There's a paid version? News to me.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Danny on November 03, 2017, 05:16:52 PM
Awesome ! Nice work on rolling this out Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: zaxxon on November 03, 2017, 08:42:46 PM
A nice addition to the Terragen toolset! I just purchased the plugin and look forward to trying it out. I was hoping that the procedural shader would allow for TG's vertical displacement capabilities to be mixed in with the erosion types, probably not the case with the heightmap  shader though? Thanks for your work on this and I'll look forward to additional releases!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: AP on November 03, 2017, 09:44:46 PM
Is the procedural erosion shader no longer going to be developed?
Well, in fact I did some research and development in procedural erosion (attached pics of procedural approach), but further development requires too much time and efforts. I still hope to return to it.

Alright, that is understandable. My other projects can wait as there are others to commit to.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: pokoy on November 06, 2017, 09:07:01 AM
Congrats on the release! Finally a fully-fledged erosion tool in TG, amazing!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on November 08, 2017, 01:01:22 AM
This looks amazing Daniil!  I haven't seen anyone ask yet, but is a multi-threaded version planned for a future update?  Just curious.  ;)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on November 08, 2017, 01:08:06 AM
This looks amazing Daniil!  I haven't seen anyone ask yet, but is a multi-threaded version planned for a future update?  Just curious.  ;)

Oops, sorry.  I was only in the beginning stages of the erosion process (watching my cores in Task Manager).  Looks like it is already multi-threaded!!!  Sweet!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 08, 2017, 06:31:26 AM
This looks amazing Daniil!  I haven't seen anyone ask yet, but is a multi-threaded version planned for a future update?  Just curious.  ;)
Oops, sorry.  I was only in the beginning stages of the erosion process (watching my cores in Task Manager).  Looks like it is already multi-threaded!!!  Sweet!

Well, sampling stage is single-threaded at this moment, because I encountered some strange bugs when it is multi-threaded.
Good news that I've just fixed this, so in next update sampling stage will be multi-threaded too.

P. S. Thanks to all for your response. :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 10, 2017, 12:44:42 PM
Classic Erosion (http://daniilkamperov.com/classic-erosion) v1.0.2 beta

Changes:

- Sampling stage is multi-threaded now;
- Added new parameter "Outer displacement offset" in "Render" tab;
- Added "Mask as thermal erosion strength" checkbox in "Thermal" tab;
- Progress window behaves better and should not disappear after few seconds;
- Some tweaks of Rivers mode and Banks map.

"Outer displacement offset" adds possibility to set displacement offset to outer terrain if outer terrain isn't rendered. If outer terrain is off and some landscape has negative altitude then eroded heightmap is rendered below outer terrain (which has zero altitude). It can be workarounded (by adding positive offset to original landscape), but this parameter may be more handy.

"Mask as thermal erosion strength" checkbox allows to state if mask is applied to thermal erosion. In previous veriosn mask applied to thermal erosion too, but selectively - only in "Mask as rock softness" and "Mask as erosion strength" modes.

Also build for Terragen 3 is available now.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Ariel DK on November 10, 2017, 03:17:26 PM
Classic Erosion (http://daniilkamperov.com/classic-erosion) v1.0.2 beta

(...)Also build for Terragen 3 is available now.


Thank you Daniil, your efforts and work are really much appreciated!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on November 11, 2017, 09:10:30 AM
Thank you, I've had a lot of fun with this already, it's an excellent and really useful plugin. I have bought and installed the erosion plugin, where can I download the update plugin from?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 11, 2017, 09:31:11 AM
I am sorry I didn't clarify that: you can download new version from the website (http://daniilkamperov.com), just press "Download free version" button, actually free and full versions are the same plugin, but full version is activated after registration. I plan to add dedicated "download" page later.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on November 11, 2017, 03:16:46 PM
Cheers :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on November 11, 2017, 03:49:39 PM
I am sorry I didn't clarify that: you can download new version from the website (http://daniilkamperov.com), just press "Download free version" button, actually free and full versions are the same plugin, but full version is activated after registration. I plan to add dedicated "download" page later.

Daniil.

having a problem there Daniil, AVAST thinks it's a trojan and won't allow download. Could you perhaps package it as a .zip or .rar to get around that. The first time I tricked AVAST and saves as to a memory stick but it won't work any more.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 11, 2017, 04:31:58 PM
having a problem there Daniil, AVAST thinks it's a trojan and won't allow download. Could you perhaps package it as a .zip or .rar to get around that. The first time I tricked AVAST and saves as to a memory stick but it won't work any more.

Thank you for the report. I'll add zip for downloading, probably tomorrow.
Is Avast really don't scan inside zip files? If it dislikes .exe, it probably blocks zip too.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on November 11, 2017, 05:19:39 PM
To prevent anti-virus software from scanning inside archive file types, you can simply encrypt the file with a simple password like "openme".
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on November 11, 2017, 11:59:55 PM
having a problem there Daniil, AVAST thinks it's a trojan and won't allow download. Could you perhaps package it as a .zip or .rar to get around that. The first time I tricked AVAST and saves as to a memory stick but it won't work any more.

Thank you for the report. I'll add zip for downloading, probably tomorrow.
Is Avast really don't scan inside zip files? If it dislikes .exe, it probably blocks zip too.

As we found out .zip worked fine, thanks for making the effort Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: j meyer on November 20, 2017, 03:48:07 PM
Quote
Also build for Terragen 3 is available now.

Thank you very much indeed.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: cyphyr on November 20, 2017, 04:02:23 PM
Great work and thank you very much. Small nudge on the procedural development ... ;)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on November 26, 2017, 01:37:50 PM
I successfully downloaded and installed free version and updates, then after purchase my virus software then detected and deleted the exe and zip. I opened TG and entered my registration code and it works fine, but is everything unlocked? It seems to work fine, but now that I have river beds, where is the water? Maps enabled RGB.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on November 26, 2017, 03:34:27 PM
You have to use the maps to mask a surface shader with a water shader as child.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 27, 2017, 04:32:35 PM
I successfully downloaded and installed free version and updates, then after purchase my virus software then detected and deleted the exe and zip. I opened TG and entered my registration code and it works fine, but is everything unlocked? It seems to work fine, but now that I have river beds, where is the water? Maps enabled RGB.
As Ulco wrote, you can use maps: for example, you can add Surface layer, add Water shader and connect it to Surface layer's child input, then you need to extract Water depth map (if Water depth is in Blue channel, you need to use "blue to scalar" node). Note that watr depth output is expressed in meters, so if you want to use it just for texturing, you need to add "Color adjust" node and set "White point" to a very low value, say, 0.01 - so you will get fully white map at 1 cm depth. Then you can connect this map to "Mask" input of water shader to get water texture.

Note that water is fully opaque. To get transparent water you need to use more complex setup, I plan to write a tutorial how to do that. (In short: you need to add a plane, or better sphere - exact copy of the planet, then texture it using Water shader, and also displace original planet using Depth map to restore true river bed).

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on November 28, 2017, 10:55:06 PM
Thank you both, I hate to say this stuff is starting to make sense....
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on December 26, 2017, 05:09:18 AM
Merry Christmas!

I have some interesting features in development, but I think I'll defer adding them into the next update of Classic Erosion shader (there is some more work needed). But I want to release smaller update with bugfixes and masking mechanics fix at least, so I want to ask users of my plugin about this fix.

At this time masking by Surface layer of Distribution shader works, but it is inconsistent with other TG shaders and works different to them. It takes normal and terrain from Mask input branch, so, if you want to mask it by some slope or altitude selection, you need to:
1. Connect Distribution shader or surface layer to the Mask input.
2. Connect current terrain to Distribution shader.
3. (Optional for some cases) add Compute normal/terrain between the terrain and Distribution shader.
See the pic:
[attachimg=1]

I fixed masking and now it works similar to other TG shaders. You just need to:
1. Connect Distribution shader or surface layer to the Mask input.
2. (Optional for some cases) add Compute normal/terrain between the terrain and Classic Erosion shader.
So the normal/displacement is now taken from the main branch.
See the pic:
[attachimg=2]

(BTW this method has some disadvantages - distribution shader's preview doesn't work correctly. At least for me)

I think I should apply this fix in the next update, but it might requre some reconnecting in already existing projects. That is why I ask: what do you think?

Also I can apply the same fix for the Procedural Erosion.

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on December 26, 2017, 03:08:30 PM
Merry Christmas on Boxing day from me as well...I'd have to say move forward as for me there's nothing I've made with Classic so far that couldn't be better with an improved plug in...
If you're using the free version how does one find out about updates by the way?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on December 27, 2017, 09:11:30 AM
Hi Danii,

I hope you have had an excellent Christmas.  I have two requests.  If it is at all possible, .bmp output of the maps for external, to TG, editing and a way to soften the edges of map output.

Keep up the excellent work.

Mick
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on December 27, 2017, 04:51:23 PM
If you're using the free version how does one find out about updates by the way?

Free version is actually the same as full, downloadable at https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/ (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/).

Quote from: mhaze
I have two requests.  If it is at all possible, .bmp output of the maps for external, to TG, editing and a way to soften the edges of map output.

.bmp export is possible, I thought about it. Although some things must be thought through.
About edges - what do you mean? Boundary edges? Or the edges of features?

Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on December 28, 2017, 10:23:34 AM
Edges of say a flow map.  They can be very hard when using them as masks for veg and fake stones.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: ajcgi on January 08, 2018, 01:08:58 PM
This looks like marvellous progress Daniil. Super excited to try this out soon, hopefully in production.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: René on January 08, 2018, 02:12:37 PM
I am happy to hear that there will be an osx version. :D
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on March 08, 2018, 07:30:36 PM
Hi Daniil,

Just wondering if any updates are coming soon.  Is the manual coming along?

Derek
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on March 14, 2018, 01:45:55 AM
Also there seems to be a bug with the Classic Erosion node.  When you disconnect it in the Node Network View TG4 consistently crashes.  So you have to constantly be very careful about how you are connecting the erosion node (very frustrating when experimenting).

Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 14, 2018, 02:07:17 AM
Also there seems to be a bug with the Classic Erosion node.  When you disconnect it in the Node Network View TG4 consistently crashes.  So you have to constantly be very careful about how you are connecting the erosion node (very frustrating when experimenting).

I have paid version and it had an update that fixed that....check you download and see if it is current?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on March 14, 2018, 03:57:54 AM
I have the latest version from here:  https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion) which is 1.0.2 beta.

Is there something newer, or a patch?  If an email went out I maybe have missed it.

Derek
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 14, 2018, 05:55:18 AM
Also there seems to be a bug with the Classic Erosion node.  When you disconnect it in the Node Network View TG4 consistently crashes.  So you have to constantly be very careful about how you are connecting the erosion node (very frustrating when experimenting).
Hello Derek,
Sorry for delay, I haven't had any time last weeks. I don't remember exactly, I think I've fixed this bug in the last unreleased build. I'll try to release a public build with this and some other fixes this week.
Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 18, 2018, 06:22:39 PM
Hello,

here is 1.0.4 beta for TG4:
https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

TG3-version is still 1.0.2, I'll update it later. If someone wants to help me with testing TG3-version, please email me (support@daniilkamperov.com).

Changes include multiple bugfixes and new masking behavior, described here (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23759.msg242017.html#msg242017).
Now displacement for mask input is evaluated using main nodes branch (nodes connected to main CE-shader input), and not the mask nodes branch. Some older projects may require a little reconnecting. I could add a switch to select the masking behaviour, but I think it is better to always stay consistent to other Terragen nodes.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on March 18, 2018, 07:23:05 PM
thanks very much...off to install it across the room.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 19, 2018, 09:17:21 PM
What are the Height Map resolutions for this plugin? I notice for the free version (I'm I'm using currently) the Height Maps says its limited. It's set to 512, but can be bumped to 1024. Is this normal behavior and extended resolutions hidden, or is the limitation not working?

I also have been experimenting with this plugin and wonder, is it actually eroding terrain, or just applying predefined erosion based on height of the original terrain? I seem to have a bad habbit of similar shapes with completely different terrain. Still trying to figure out how to erode anything like anyone else. Lol
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 19, 2018, 09:40:36 PM
What are the Height Map resolutions for this plugin? I notice for the free version (I'm I'm using currently) the Height Maps says its limited. It's set to 512, but can be bumped to 1024. Is this normal behavior and extended resolutions hidden, or is the limitation not working?

I also have been experimenting with this plugin and wonder, is it actually eroding terrain, or just applying predefined erosion based on height of the original terrain? I seem to have a bad habbit of similar shapes with completely different terrain. Still trying to figure out how to erode anything like anyone else. Lol

You have to assign the maps to RGB channels. I did it on surface layers assigning slope and altitude, etc...
Link for more details...blinkfrog general instructions with examples
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23764.msg240241.html#msg240241
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 19, 2018, 10:03:12 PM
What are the Height Map resolutions for this plugin? I notice for the free version (I'm I'm using currently) the Height Maps says its limited. It's set to 512, but can be bumped to 1024. Is this normal behavior and extended resolutions hidden, or is the limitation not working?

I also have been experimenting with this plugin and wonder, is it actually eroding terrain, or just applying predefined erosion based on height of the original terrain? I seem to have a bad habbit of similar shapes with completely different terrain. Still trying to figure out how to erode anything like anyone else. Lol

You have to assign the maps to RGB channels. I did it on surface layers assigning slope and altitude, etc...
Link for more details...blinkfrog general instructions with examples
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23764.msg240241.html#msg240241

It seems those are mainly for masking/coloring your erosion after it's finalized.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 19, 2018, 10:19:58 PM
What are the Height Map resolutions for this plugin? I notice for the free version (I'm I'm using currently) the Height Maps says its limited. It's set to 512, but can be bumped to 1024. Is this normal behavior and extended resolutions hidden, or is the limitation not working?

I also have been experimenting with this plugin and wonder, is it actually eroding terrain, or just applying predefined erosion based on height of the original terrain? I seem to have a bad habbit of similar shapes with completely different terrain. Still trying to figure out how to erode anything like anyone else. Lol

You have to assign the maps to RGB channels. I did it on surface layers assigning slope and altitude, etc...
Link for more details...blinkfrog general instructions with examples
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23764.msg240241.html#msg240241

It seems those are mainly for masking/coloring your erosion after it's finalized.

Pretty sure it isolates the maps for either color or distribution. I hooked wear map into a complicated displacement setup as a mask and wear was only applied there. I also generally run Erode again after i set up the channels. The paid version has larger resolution maps, but even the 1024 is good.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 19, 2018, 11:23:23 PM
What are the Height Map resolutions for this plugin? I notice for the free version (I'm I'm using currently) the Height Maps says its limited. It's set to 512, but can be bumped to 1024. Is this normal behavior and extended resolutions hidden, or is the limitation not working?

I also have been experimenting with this plugin and wonder, is it actually eroding terrain, or just applying predefined erosion based on height of the original terrain? I seem to have a bad habbit of similar shapes with completely different terrain. Still trying to figure out how to erode anything like anyone else. Lol

You have to assign the maps to RGB channels. I did it on surface layers assigning slope and altitude, etc...
Link for more details...blinkfrog general instructions with examples
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,23764.msg240241.html#msg240241

It seems those are mainly for masking/coloring your erosion after it's finalized.

Pretty sure it isolates the maps for either color or distribution. I hooked wear map into a complicated displacement setup as a mask and wear was only applied there. I also generally run Erode again after i set up the channels. The paid version has larger resolution maps, but even the 1024 is good.

Oh I see. Will have to give it some more testing. I've been thinking of trying to see if we can set aside money for the paid version but I use free TG4 so not sure if the benefits will be worth it. I rarely send of projects for full resolution renders, and my buddy I used to have render stuff is super busy and like helps run a town now and just simply isn't even on Skype anymore let alone Facebook. I think 1024 resolution probably works well within my quality restraints.

Seems the 1024 maps are more a basic shape-form to than apply your own stuff too for the free version.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 20, 2018, 12:04:24 AM
Here is an example of simplicity. Is this limitation due to the quality of the heightmaps or settings? I see nothing to ramp up flows. The flows are just huge, and rounded off, having little aesthetic use. They also seem to not follow the wear map very well, starting/ending further away from crease points.

In the second image, X's mark crease wear points, and the circles represent misaligned flow maps. The question marks are flows which just don't make sense (or missing).
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 20, 2018, 12:16:19 AM
Are you wanting to do this?
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24021.msg242566.html#msg242566
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 20, 2018, 12:20:46 AM
Are you wanting to do this?
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24021.msg242566.html#msg242566

Similar yes, but more tropical than alpine. Rain wear rather than glacial.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on March 20, 2018, 12:32:46 AM
Are you wanting to do this?
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24021.msg242566.html#msg242566

Similar yes, but more tropical than alpine. Rain wear rather than glacial.

Not sure what is going on with yours. I did a rivers with one lake example and it did okay. I did a lava flow one and it did okay too. I only had the beta and free version a couple of days before I went ahead and purchased it. I don't think that matters much though I am not sure. I am not an expert, but I do like to experiment.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 20, 2018, 12:49:36 AM
Are you wanting to do this?
https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24021.msg242566.html#msg242566

Similar yes, but more tropical than alpine. Rain wear rather than glacial.

Not sure what is going on with yours. I did a rivers with one lake example and it did okay. I did a lava flow one and it did okay too. I only had the beta and free version a couple of days before I went ahead and purchased it. I don't think that matters much though I am not sure. I am not an expert, but I do like to experiment.

Huh. Yeah no matter what I do the flows map is just really primitive looking, and a lot of the map is so light it doesn't show in the actual terrain, and all flows intersect with round spots and end in round spots. Going to test on a SS shape in a moment.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 20, 2018, 06:17:44 AM
Hello WASasquatch,
thank you for trying Classic Erosion.

Some answers to your questions:

1. Full version supports resolution up to 16384.

2. No, this algorithm doesn't use any predefined patterns. There is simulation only.

3. I am not sure what you want to achieve, so please excuse me if I am wrong. Are you trying to get usual eroded terrain? I can see you have enabled Rivers mode in the settings, this is very special mode which prevents usual fluvial erosion and is used for rivers generating only. So if you need just eroded terrain you should disable Rivers mode. If you want both fluvial erosion and rivers on the top of that you need to use two plugins in the chain, the first in usual mode, the second with rivers mode enabled.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 20, 2018, 07:48:25 AM
Hello WASasquatch,
thank you for trying Classic Erosion.

Some answers to your questions:

1. Full version supports resolution up to 16384.

2. No, this algorithm doesn't use any predefined patterns. There is simulation only.

3. I am not sure what you want to achieve, so please excuse me if I am wrong. Are you trying to get usual eroded terrain? I can see you have enabled Rivers mode in the settings, this is very special mode which prevents usual fluvial erosion and is used for rivers generating only. So if you need just eroded terrain you should disable Rivers mode. If you want both fluvial erosion and rivers on the top of that you need to use two plugins in the chain, the first in usual mode, the second with rivers mode enabled.

Daniil

I think I understand a bit. I'm trying to get smaller eroded rivers. I also notice if you decrease the river side, the river map will break altogether and show nothing in the map (if you disable the rivers you'll get some sort of map, which is not the rivers map when flow is selected for map output, when selected it's blank) requiring the plugin to be deleted and remade.

It all seems a bit confusing and I'm not sure if it's the map resolution limitations or what but can't seem to make anything that is remotely like other peoples work. If that's the case, it's not a good evaluation of the plugin. I can't tell what I'm doing at limited scale to know if it would be applicable at large scale.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 23, 2018, 07:11:51 PM
WASasquatch,
It seems I understand what you want. I think what you need is not permanent rivers, but channels that left after heavy precipitation. The difference is that "precipitation" rivers don't have any particular "start" as they are formed from the smaller streams which are just raindrops gathered together. These streams disappear after precipitation is ended, whereas "permanent" rivers usually start from some headwaters, for example, underground springs and flow permanently. Current rivers mode targets rivers from headwaters, and headwaters are placed randomly. That is why rivers are placed not exactly where you want - they flow from random headwaters.

As for rivers due to precipitation and channels that are formed by these temporary streams. Current erosion model doesn't suits well for this because of some physical simplifications, but you can still get some good results using specific settings.

Don't use Rivers mode (disable if enabled), you need "common" erosion.
You need to use low Duration (less than 0.25), low Erosion strength (less than 0.5) and high Downcutting (close to 1.0 or even higher). Use low Base level (or even zero) to get sharper channels, also you can to experiment with Random sedimentation parameter to add some randomness to channels, but this can result in worse results.

See attached image.

I've used these parameters:
Duration = 0.1 (you can try even lower values, say, 0.05, but sometimes you need to set Erosion strength higher in this case, or to use Downcutting that is higher than 1.0)
Erosion strength = 0.15
Softness = 1.0
Downcutting = 1.0
Base level = 0.12
Random sedimentation = 0.5
Also I've set Erosion scale parameter to relatively high value (1000), this sometimes can help.

Result is almost unmodified terrain but with channels that left from temporary streams, formed during heavy rains.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 23, 2018, 07:44:43 PM
What I mean by precipitation erosion is something like Koolau in Hawaii

(http://cdn.onlyinyourstate.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/1.-Koolau-Mountains-700x464.jpg)

Constant precipitation flow has cut channels out of the mountain from peak to base. Though this is a bit more extreme an example than I intended. I was able to do something with maps that is somewhat close just wish the flows could be smaller, based on a scale or something.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 27, 2018, 05:57:37 PM
WASasquatch,
Ah, ok. The word "rivers" distracted me.
To get deep cuts you need to use high values of Downcutting parameter. Hint: you can, and should use values higher, than 1.0, for example, 2.0, 4.0 or even 10.0 or 50.0. Deposition may look strange with these settings, to compensate this you can set high value of "Base level" parameter, I found that 0.4 from Downcutting is good, for example, Downcutting = 10, Base level = 4, but it requires more experimenting.
In the attached example I used these settings:
Duration = 0.2
Erosion strength = 1.0
Rock softness = 0.05 (to get thinner gullies and to change its distribution to emphasize the ones with more intensive flows)
Downcutting = 20
Base level = 8
Also I used quite aggressive thermal erosion here to make "walls" a bit more smooth and solid looking.

Daniil

P. S. I am pondering on making "Downcutting" parameter range wider, say, up to 10 or 20, and to make it non-linear and weighted towards lower values. It won't affect the behaviour and old projects compatibility, but will make using higher values easier. Possibly the same for Base level parameter.

P. P. S. Possibly I am wrong about  such high values of Base level. It requires experimenting, possibly it is better to start with 1.0, and then try higher values.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on March 27, 2018, 08:29:49 PM
WASasquatch,
Ah, ok. The word "rivers" distracted me.
To get deep cuts you need to use high values of Downcutting parameter. Hint: you can, and should use values higher, than 1.0, for example, 2.0, 4.0 or even 10.0 or 50.0. Deposition may look strange with these settings, to compensate this you can set high value of "Base level" parameter, I found that 0.4 from Downcutting is good, for example, Downcutting = 10, Base level = 4, but it requires more experimenting.
In the attached example I used these settings:
Duration = 0.2
Erosion strength = 1.0
Rock softness = 0.05 (to get thinner gullies and to change its distribution to emphasize the ones with more intensive flows)
Downcutting = 20
Base level = 8
Also I used quite aggressive thermal erosion here to make "walls" a bit more smooth and solid looking.

Daniil

P. S. I am pondering on making "Downcutting" parameter range wider, say, up to 10 or 20, and to make it non-linear and weighted towards lower values. It won't affect the behaviour and old projects compatibility, but will make using higher values easier. Possibly the same for Base level parameter.

P. P. S. Possibly I am wrong about  such high values of Base level. It requires experimenting, possibly it is better to start with 1.0, and then try higher values.
Great example of settings and explanation. Going to give some tests today.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on March 28, 2018, 07:36:30 AM
Quote from: WASasquatch
Great example of settings and explanation. Going to give some tests today.

Hm. Possibly this was not very good example. I did some tests, and discovered, that if I set Downcutting to zero, result is still very similar. High value of Base level compensates Downcutting effect (I wrote that this requires more experimenting) and cuts are very similar. With downcutting they are just placed further in rock towards the mountain.

It's the shape of uneroded mountain that gives gullies this look, more specifically, this abrupt step: ¯\_. Erosive flows smoothen this step, generating deep gully even without downcutting. Downcutting just emphasises this effect, but it is important to set proper values of Downcutting and Base level.

Rock softness, Duration, Erosion strength (and Scale too) are responsible for the gullies shape.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on May 01, 2018, 02:50:50 AM
Can I get some direction on how to create this kind of erosion:

https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23759.0;attach=76886;image (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23759.0;attach=76886;image)

There are a lot of nice example of what Classic Erosion is capable of, but still no User Manual.  It would have been nice to get some example scenes along with a purchase of Classic Erosion.  Maybe it's not too late to provide some so we can learn some techniques to reproduce what was shown to market CE.  ;)

Derek
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 01, 2018, 04:08:19 AM
Can I get some direction on how to create this kind of erosion:

https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23759.0;attach=76886;image (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=23759.0;attach=76886;image)

There are a lot of nice example of what Classic Erosion is capable of, but still no User Manual.  It would have been nice to get some example scenes along with a purchase of Classic Erosion.  Maybe it's not too late to provide some so we can learn some techniques to reproduce what was shown to market CE.  ;)

Derek

I've wanted to create similar for canyons. It seems like a basic SSS cut in the terrain and all Classic Erosion but I'm not positive about that at all. Perhaps a strata underneath?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on May 01, 2018, 05:21:54 AM
Martin did that one, and I think he used strata indeed and several 'iterations' of the erosion shader with quite high resolution settings.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 02, 2018, 05:27:23 PM
I am working on user manual, but it still isn't ready, sorry for this.
As for .tgd-sources for pictures, I can't upload these as the most pictures (those that are the most impressive) aren't mine, they are created by very talented Terragen artists, namely Ulco and Martin. That canyon scene was created and rendered by Martin.

I can share my canyon, but it is quite mediocre, I am a poor artist.
I've attached .tgd scene and two renders (without and with thermal erosion).

I used powerfractal, fractal warp shader, strata shader, small powerfractal, one erosion layer and strata shader after it. As far as I know Martin used two erosion layers and also added powerfractal after erosion shaders for some additional details.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on May 02, 2018, 05:31:25 PM
Thanks for the demo scene Daniil, will study this.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on May 02, 2018, 05:38:16 PM
Thanks Daniil!  That's just what I needed!!!  :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on May 02, 2018, 05:54:12 PM
Thanks again!  :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 02, 2018, 06:00:35 PM
I am working on user manual, but it still isn't ready, sorry for this.
As for .tgd-sources for pictures, I can't upload these as the most pictures (those that are the most impressive) aren't mine, they are created by very talented Terragen artists, namely Ulco and Martin. That canyon scene was created and rendered by Martin.

I can share my canyon, but it is quite mediocre, I am a poor artist.
I've attached .tgd scene and two renders (without and with thermal erosion).

I used powerfractal, fractal warp shader, strata shader, small powerfractal, one erosion layer and strata shader after it. As far as I know Martin used two erosion layers and also added powerfractal after erosion shaders for some additional details.

Daniil

Thanks a lot Danill. I think us lowly artists were hoping to unlock the secrets of this look. It still looks rather impressive.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 02, 2018, 06:01:46 PM
Forgot to add, in this scene with erosion parameters that set quite gentle, landscape influences final terrain much more than erosion, so creating proper uneroded landscape is possibly more important task than tuning the erosion.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 10, 2018, 06:24:35 AM
Hey Daniil, my fiancee went ahead and got my your plugin to use, though we are both a bit confused. We made a purchase, which in itself should be verification, but they want to have a phone call? Lol  But they do not give any directions, nor any call. But it is late, I imagine they are definitely closed. Just find it confusing. I tried calling the number in the email, but it was just a helpdesk number for support or request support.

I guess I'll call support in the morning if I don't get a random call. Hopefully I'm awake. Lol What a intrusive payment service. First I've seen like this.

Update: They called. Confirmed payment for the plugin, and questions my fiancee's relationship to me lol
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 10, 2018, 06:41:52 AM
What a intrusive payment service. First I've seen like this.
Update: They called. Confirmed payment for the plugin, and questions my fiancee's relationship to me lol
Sorry for this. I glad that all is ok now. In the most cases there is no problems with PPG, but, it seems, they can do additional checks for payments that they think are "suspicious" to minimize fraud. AFAIK sometimes they can do it for some silly reasons like using "free" mail services like "mail.com".

Edit: Yes, as I can see in the transaction details, they indeed marked this transaction as "slightly risky" because of using free mail service. 

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 10, 2018, 06:45:59 AM
What a intrusive payment service. First I've seen like this.
Update: They called. Confirmed payment for the plugin, and questions my fiancee's relationship to me lol
Sorry for this. I glad that all is ok now. In the most cases there is no problems with PPG, but, it seems, they can do additional checks for payments that they think are "suspicious" to minimize fraud. AFAIK sometimes they can do it for some silly reasons like using "free" mail services like "mail.com".

You'd hope they wouldn't flag emails backed by google. It was probably because my me and my fiancee aren't married and have different last names. Though you'd think gifts would be common.

Thanks for the hard work into this plugin, about to check out these high res maps.

Update: I am glad Windows 10 is good at handling ram overflow to vram. Lol
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 15, 2018, 06:49:49 PM
Feature Request: Ability to save and load maps from HDD.

Even just the saving feature to TIFF would be nice, as you can only output 3 channels, but could utilize more. Even from different types of erosions based on the same terrain not present just for colouring or what have you.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on May 16, 2018, 06:07:37 AM
You could add another shader and set different output, but use the same parameters. There will likely be a little difference, but it might work.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 16, 2018, 06:08:05 PM
Yes, and I currently do that, but considering the limit of three channels and needing to do that, it would be handy to be able to simply offload the maps to TIFF and load them via image map shader or w/e. It also would allow post processing on maps.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on May 17, 2018, 05:14:50 AM
If you offload to tiffs, you can easily shift between masks and offload each in turn (ortho render).
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 17, 2018, 07:10:20 PM
If you offload to tiffs, you can easily shift between masks and offload each in turn (ortho render).

Would love access to the ortho camera, but that's specifically disabled for Free so I can't use TG to export things, even though at small resolution anything exported would be nearly useless for most applications, except to see that TG can appropriately do it for a users instance.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bsm3d on May 17, 2018, 10:29:21 PM
Thanks for such great plug-in !
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 27, 2018, 02:44:22 AM
I've been having a issue where if I render without eroding Terragen will crash as soon as the "Erosion Progress" starts. I have to erode before I render. I usually do this naturally anyway but simetimes I'll forget.  The plugin/tg has never crashed when starting the erosion process outside of a render.

Come to think of it, I actually don't remember this being a issue when I was on the free version on 4.1.11 or whatever it was when I hadn't realized there was an update cause he update feature is down.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 27, 2018, 07:07:17 AM
I've been having a issue where if I render without eroding Terragen will crash as soon as the "Erosion Progress" starts.
Thank you for the report. I actually have fixed this bug recently and am fixing another bug at this moment. As soon I'll fix it I'll upload new version.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on May 27, 2018, 02:33:08 PM
I've been having a issue where if I render without eroding Terragen will crash as soon as the "Erosion Progress" starts.
Thank you for the report. I actually have fixed this bug recently and am fixing another bug at this moment. As soon I'll fix it I'll upload new version.

Daniil

good to know
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 27, 2018, 05:03:27 PM
I've been having a issue where if I render without eroding Terragen will crash as soon as the "Erosion Progress" starts.
Thank you for the report. I actually have fixed this bug recently and am fixing another bug at this moment. As soon I'll fix it I'll upload new version.

Daniil

Awesome! Glad to know it was easily found.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 29, 2018, 07:20:29 PM
Classic Erosion v1.0.5

- Fixed bug that caused crashes on eroding start and in some other occasions
- Fixed bug that led to incorrect displaying of wear map and deposition map after erosion datafile reading
- Minor fixes

https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on May 29, 2018, 07:26:38 PM
Classic Erosion v1.0.5

- Fixed bug that caused crashes on eroding start and in some other occasions
- Fixed bug that led to incorrect displaying of wear map and deposition map after erosion datafile reading
- Minor fixes

https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

Daniil

Thank you very much
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 29, 2018, 07:37:09 PM
Wow what fast work! Great job! Thanks a lot.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on May 29, 2018, 09:15:47 PM
Classic Erosion v1.0.5

- Fixed bug that caused crashes on eroding start and in some other occasions
- Fixed bug that led to incorrect displaying of wear map and deposition map after erosion datafile reading
- Minor fixes

https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

Daniil

Thanks Danill!  Does this mean that Flow, Wear, and Deposition are actually correctly saved in the .erd file, and after installing this new version of Classic Erosion that data will properly load?  OR do I need to re-erode my terrain and save a new .erd file?  Some of my 16k erosions take 2 hours so that's why I am wondering.

Derek
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 30, 2018, 03:35:51 AM
Thanks Danill!  Does this mean that Flow, Wear, and Deposition are actually correctly saved in the .erd file, and after installing this new version of Classic Erosion that data will properly load?
Derek
Yes, it does.  :) You don't need to reerode.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on May 30, 2018, 04:23:23 AM
Sweet!  I am doing my final renderings right now, so it's perfect timing!  Now I can just load my scenes and the erosion data loads right in from the .erd file.

I have never used the other two maps (Streamline Map, and Water Depth Map).  Do those get saved in the .erd file as well?  How do you use those?

Derek
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on May 30, 2018, 04:52:02 PM
Classic Erosion v1.0.5

- Fixed bug that caused crashes on eroding start and in some other occasions
- Fixed bug that led to incorrect displaying of wear map and deposition map after erosion datafile reading
- Minor fixes

https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

Daniil

Getting a code 5 error message when I try to install this update.  :( Classic Purchased/ TG4 Creative/Win10
I did have to do the usual runaround with Windows Defender....run anyway...
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 30, 2018, 05:05:48 PM
Classic Erosion v1.0.5

- Fixed bug that caused crashes on eroding start and in some other occasions
- Fixed bug that led to incorrect displaying of wear map and deposition map after erosion datafile reading
- Minor fixes

https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

Daniil

Getting a code 5 error message when I try to install this update.  :( Classic Purchased/ TG4 Creative/Win10
I did have to do the usual runaround with Windows Defender....run anyway...

Error Code 5 means your system has blocked the executable, because the credentials supplied by your account were not sufficient.

Right click, head to properties, and check "Unblock"

It's not an officially digitally signed file, so windows will always complain or block it with UAC enabled.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on May 30, 2018, 05:17:22 PM
Thanks! Will do!  :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on May 30, 2018, 06:10:09 PM
I have never used the other two maps (Streamline Map, and Water Depth Map).  Do those get saved in the .erd file as well?  How do you use those?
Streamline map is saved too, Water Depth is saved only for terrains built in "Rivers mode".
Streamline can be useful if you need to show stream lines in water flows. Just flowmap is not always good for it as it shows amount of water flowed and can't display fine stream lines. Note that you possibly need to turn "Laminar flow" on for less chaotic streamline map, and probably multiply this map by deposition map or by clamped flowmap to display streamlines where they are needed.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on May 30, 2018, 09:03:22 PM
I discovered some odd behavior.

Basically I had a "river" mask, which was piped into some displacement. I inserted this before the erosion shader, as I wanted to see how the river bed eroded with the rest will look. It unfortunately pushed the rivers banks up into peaks in some spots so I decided it would be best to move the displacement below the erosion shader. I cut the shaders, and pasted them (causing TG to automatically snap in the fractal warp shader and terrain shader to snap into the input of the erosion shader automatically), moving them below the erosion shader and than hit "Erode". It sampled, and eroded, but the river erosion remained. Clicking erode again did nothing, it felt there was no change. I had to go into my base displacement PF and change my minimum scale to 0.01 from 0.1 in order for the erosion shader to pickup a change and re-erode, without the river mask involved.

Edit: Additionally, will there be improvements to the river mode? Like a "Alpine River mode" that utilizes Laminar Flows and connects them with river systems in the plains?  I've been trying to create alpines like here in Washington State where there are thousands of creeks and streams on our mountains that feed rivers in the valleys, but the river mode seems to favor large intersections for rivers, and don't correspond to erosion that well. See my post about rivers (https://planetside.co.uk/forums/index.php/topic,24534.0.html). I tried using two erosion, and a single with SSS and it looks odd.

For referance, see how  the mountains here appear very much like erosion with laminar flows, but the flows all link to rivers in the gullies, which are a bit hard to see due to dense coverage but yeah, you can't walk down that highway without a creek/stream on your left to view every couple minutes. (for some reason it keeps changing the location and is not where I set it, but explore the mountain loop pass there): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Monte+Cristo+Trail,+Granite+Falls,+WA+98252/@48.0175741,-121.4458161,779m/data=!3m2!1e3!4b1!4m8!1m2!2m1!1sMountain+Loop+Highway+aerial!3m4!1s0x549ac454f42ea135:0x5b9e6c1717613c58!8m2!3d48.0175741!4d-121.4436274
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on June 02, 2018, 01:23:51 AM
One quick note.  I have noticed that sometimes if you make some changes and try to erode again and nothing happens, it seems to help to change the erosion resolution down and then erode, then change it back to your desired higher resolution and erode again.  For example, if your doing erosions at the max of 16,384 and the described behavior happens try turning down your resolution to 4096, or even 1024 and erode.  Then when you turn it back up to 16,384 it seems to erode as expected.  I'm not sure of there is some sort of cache that gets cleared or something, but I have had to do that sometimes to get my erosions to update when making changes, such as changing the area size of the erosion.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on June 02, 2018, 05:05:10 PM
One quick note.  I have noticed that sometimes if you make some changes and try to erode again and nothing happens, it seems to help to change the erosion resolution down and then erode, then change it back to your desired higher resolution and erode again.  For example, if your doing erosions at the max of 16,384 and the described behavior happens try turning down your resolution to 4096, or even 1024 and erode.  Then when you turn it back up to 16,384 it seems to erode as expected.  I'm not sure of there is some sort of cache that gets cleared or something, but I have had to do that sometimes to get my erosions to update when making changes, such as changing the area size of the erosion.

As a note to your note, changing erosion resolution will reerode, but not resample.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on June 13, 2018, 08:35:55 PM
Been having issues entering "Rivers Mode" where the plugin simply doesn't respond. It will change the functions available (graying out incompatible functions) but it will not switch over the maps, nor actually erode in rivers.

Additionally, if you "cut" a Classic Erosion from another file and paste it into your current file, to save on adjusting settings, the CE will produce a very super smooth erosion without detail.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 14, 2018, 03:24:17 AM
Been having issues entering "Rivers Mode" where the plugin simply doesn't respond. It will change the functions available (graying out incompatible functions) but it will not switch over the maps, nor actually erode in rivers.

Additionally, if you "cut" a Classic Erosion from another file and paste it into your current file, to save on adjusting settings, the CE will produce a very super smooth erosion without detail.
Thank you for the report, I'll look into the problem.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Mid-Knight Acchan on June 14, 2018, 07:08:11 AM
https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html

This site is made without permission.
I am glad if you give me permission.

And.. Japanese only... :P
Use google!

Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 26, 2018, 04:54:37 PM
Been having issues entering "Rivers Mode" where the plugin simply doesn't respond. It will change the functions available (graying out incompatible functions) but it will not switch over the maps, nor actually erode in rivers.
Additionally, if you "cut" a Classic Erosion from another file and paste it into your current file, to save on adjusting settings, the CE will produce a very super smooth erosion without detail.
Unfortunately I can't reproduce these problems. Could you please describe the exact sequence of actions leading to these problems?

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on June 26, 2018, 05:02:57 PM
Been having issues entering "Rivers Mode" where the plugin simply doesn't respond. It will change the functions available (graying out incompatible functions) but it will not switch over the maps, nor actually erode in rivers.
Additionally, if you "cut" a Classic Erosion from another file and paste it into your current file, to save on adjusting settings, the CE will produce a very super smooth erosion without detail.
Unfortunately I can't reproduce these problems. Could you please describe the exact sequence of actions leading to these problems?

Daniil


Rivers mode issue seemed to be isolated to a single event, or glitch, as I've not had the issue again. In fact, re-opening that file and it was fine and eroded fine.

The cut issue I'm not sure how else to phrase it. I cut your example erosion shader for the canyons and pasted it in another project. That shader only produced super smooth round shapes, no detail. Wondering if it was a incompatibility with the shader being set with a previous version of the plugin, and than cut and pasted into a project and eroded with wrong settings or something. Perhaps the plugin should scan over all erosion shaders upon starting a project and update them if that is the issue. As well as any pasted shader.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 26, 2018, 05:06:59 PM
https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html
This site is made without permission.
I am glad if you give me permission.
And.. Japanese only... :P
Use google!

Hello, sorry for long reply.
I can't load this website, it says: "The Amazon CloudFront distribution is configured to block access from your country. ".

As far as I remember someone (possibly it was you?) already asked me for a permission to take text and images for this site https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html from my webpage. The answer is still the same: you can take any text and some images - those that aren't subscribed as "Image courtesy by Ulco Glimmerveen" and "Image courtesy by Martin Huisman" - for these pictures you need to ask their authours for permission.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on June 26, 2018, 05:10:13 PM
https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html
This site is made without permission.
I am glad if you give me permission.
And.. Japanese only... :P
Use google!

Hello, sorry for long reply.
I can't load this website, it says: "The Amazon CloudFront distribution is configured to block access from your country. ".

As far as I remember someone (possibly it was you?) already asked me for a permission to take text and images for this site https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html from my webpage. The answer is still the same: you can take any text and some images - those that aren't subscribed as "Image courtesy by Ulco Glimmerveen" and "Image courtesy by Martin Huisman" - for these pictures you need to ask their authours for permission.

Daniil

Here is the website page for review, Daniil.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 26, 2018, 05:17:01 PM
Classic Erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion) v1.0.6

- Added maps export (this feature was requested several times)
- Fixed bug in the Rivers mode that led to strange points in flowmap and some strange pits

Maps are exported into .png-files. You specify the folder and general name for maps, and they are exported into multiple single-channel grayscale 16-bit pngs (except for streamline map which is exported to 8-bit) - this is a good compromise between size and quality and preserves the dynamic range of maps so you can adjust white and black points or dynamic curve in the graphic editor. See attached images - I used GIMP to modify original flowmap (0.png) to two variants.

As for final filenames - they are generated automatically. For example, if you specify "abc" as filename, it results in several files: "abc.flow.png", "abc.deposition.png", "abc.wear.png" etc.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on June 26, 2018, 05:23:28 PM
Classic Erosion (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion) v1.0.6

- Added maps export (this feature was requested several times)
- Fixed bug in the Rivers mode that led to strange points in flowmap and some strange pits

Maps are exported into .png-files. You specify the folder and general name for maps, and they are exported into multiple single-channel grayscale 16-bit pngs (except for streamline map which is exported to 8-bit) - this is a good compromise between size and quality and preserves the dynamic range of maps so you can adjust white and black points or dynamic curve in the graphic editor. See attached images - I used GIMP to modify original flowmap (0.png) to two variants.

As for final filenames - they are generated automatically. For example, if you specify "abc" as filename, it results in several files: "abc.flow.png", "abc.deposition.png", "abc.wear.png" etc.

Daniil

Omg! I'm so excited! Thanks so much Daniil! This sounds awesome!

And this fix for the rivers mode, do you think this would fix the weird issue I was having where rivers weren't actually starting at depression points and seemed random?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 26, 2018, 06:21:35 PM
Omg! I'm so excited! Thanks so much Daniil! This sounds awesome!
And this fix for the rivers mode, do you think this would fix the weird issue I was having where rivers weren't actually starting at depression points and seemed random?
I am afraid this won't fix this issue. Rivers headwaters are placed RANDOMLY indeed, not in depression points. Headwaters are static sources of water, such as underground springs that can be located in any places.

Thank you for the website page.

As for the problem with "cut" and "paste" - I tried it several times but had no any problems.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on June 26, 2018, 06:31:05 PM
Thanks for the update Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 26, 2018, 06:36:16 PM
https://www65.atwiki.jp/terragen/pages/144.html
This site is made without permission.
I am glad if you give me permission.
And.. Japanese only... :P
Use google!

Hi again,

So, I've reviewed this page (thanks to WASasquatch), and all seems ok (if you asked Ulco and Martin for permission). Great work BTW!

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: luvsmuzik on June 27, 2018, 02:39:58 AM
Got it ! Thanks!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on June 27, 2018, 05:38:55 AM
@ Mid-Knight Acchan: I can't remember if I ever gave this permission, and any query of yours may have ended up in the spam box, but I herewith give you permission to use the images. No problem at all.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Mid-Knight Acchan on June 27, 2018, 08:34:47 AM
WASasquatch, Thank you for making an offline page.
Daniil, Thank you for remembering.
Ulco, I sent an email, but it does not seem to have arrived, thanks for permission.

BTW,
Under what conditions will the "Water depth map" be output in map export?
Although it is touched, only four maps are output.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on June 27, 2018, 08:53:26 AM
Under what conditions will the "Water depth map" be output in map export?
Although it is touched, only four maps are output.
Water depth map can't be exported currently. I need to think through some things:

1. Water depth is expressed in meters, how to convert it to 0...1 range? I can normalize it, but will it be useful after this?

2. Water depth is the only map that isn't raster map. It has infinite resolution and shows actual difference in meters between water surface and river bed. I can sample it to raster, but will it still be useful in this case?

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on June 29, 2018, 04:01:47 PM
Thanks for the maps it will be a really useful update. All I need is a map of the river positions and depths can be shown by grey scale so a simple raster map will be a very good start.
Title: Classic Erosion: Render Artifacts in FlowMap
Post by: SILENCER on July 04, 2018, 02:28:46 PM
I've never seen this before, and it shows up in the 3D preview as well as RTP.
At first I thought it was some bizzarro access to the hot pink default test color, but no.
Then I thought maybe some error if the flowmap masked surface is displaced, but Nyet.

Lowrez heightmap, maybe? It's only at 4096. Scene is reading a saved .erd file

I'll try this on my work machine which works at Formula 1 speeds, and see if the height map rez is the issue.


EDIT: I see above the Plug In was updated with a new build. We'll give that a stab and recalculate.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion: Render Artifacts in FlowMap
Post by: WASasquatch on July 04, 2018, 04:26:32 PM
I've never seen this before, and it shows up in the 3D preview as well as RTP.
At first I thought it was some bizzarro access to the hot pink default test color, but no.
Then I thought maybe some error if the flowmap masked surface is displaced, but Nyet.

Lowrez heightmap, maybe? It's only at 4096. Scene is reading a saved .erd file

I'll try this on my work machine which works at Formula 1 speeds, and see if the height map rez is the issue.


EDIT: I see above the Plug In was updated with a new build. We'll give that a stab and recalculate.

Looks like the maps are showing through your shaders from terrrain. Make sure you have at least a solid colour surface layer or PF before any actual colouring and masking.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: SILENCER on July 04, 2018, 06:28:19 PM
Make sure you have at least a solid colour surface layer or PF before any actual colouring and masking.


They way I solved this was by piping the flowmap scalar data mask into the PF color function of the surface, instead of the actual surface.  I also re calculated the hieghtmap at 8K resolution.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion: Render Artifacts in FlowMap
Post by: blinkfrog on July 04, 2018, 06:57:07 PM
I've never seen this before, and it shows up in the 3D preview as well as RTP.
At first I thought it was some bizzarro access to the hot pink default test color, but no.
Hi Kyle,
Do you mean these strange color artifacts? I think they are because of flow map - this map can have values higher than 1.0. Clamp flow map (you can insert Color adjust shader with default settings) and it should solve this problem.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on August 20, 2018, 07:05:36 PM
Classic Erosion v1.1 (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)

 - Fixed behaviour that caused strange peaks and overshoots om the area of sharp terrain edges;
 - New thermal erosion.

[attachimg=1 align=center width=800]
(There is only thermal erosion is used)

New thermal erosion is presented as two new thermal erosion models. There is the parameter "Thermal erosion model" where you can select desired model.

Model A: this is old thermal erosion, left for compatibility with existing projects.

Model B: new erosion model. This thermal erosion model applies thermal stress uniformly to the rock. Resulting rock has similar look to uneroded, keeping it's shape as long as possible. Of course, if high thermal erosion intensity or long simulation time is used, resulting rock can lost it's with original. This model can be helpful for imitating erosion that often occurs in a dry climate.

Model C: new erosion model. This model emulates non-uniform thermal stress taking into account rock shape. For example, if you erode perfectly rounded truncated cone, you would get perectly round cone with nice talus "skirt" beneath it. But if original cone is distorted, it's irregularity will drive and control the erosion process, resulting in a complex shape. This gives rock it's distinctive "mountain" look, so often just thermal erosion is enough to get good mountain-like landscape.

Example (top-down view):
[attachimg=2 align=center]

There is also new "Smoothness" parameter available for "C" model. It controls the thermal stress of convex parts of rock: the rock pieces that are raised. The higher is smoothness, the higher is probability of destruction and falling down of these rock pieces. Combining with mild fluvial erosion this can be helpful for getting mountain shapes that often exist in cold climate.

New thermal models also allow resolution independance similar to fluvial erosion.

Thermal erosion strength in new models can be set higher than 1 up to quite high values (10 or may be more), but usually this isn't needed. Moreover, in many cases (for example, if combined with fluvial erosion) it is better to set Thermal erosion strength to quite low values, sometimes even less than 0.1.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on August 20, 2018, 08:56:06 PM
Sweet!  Thanks Daniil!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Matt on August 21, 2018, 12:13:57 AM
The new erosion model looks really nice :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on August 21, 2018, 12:54:36 AM
The new erosion model looks really nice :)

It does and fun to work with the new features..well done Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on August 21, 2018, 06:05:39 AM
Thanks very much Daniil! Looks wonderful and very useful.  :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on August 21, 2018, 12:27:08 PM
Nice changes, thank you.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on August 21, 2018, 07:46:24 PM
Wowzers! Lots to play with! Thanks a lot! Going to check it out.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on August 25, 2018, 07:23:55 AM
Thank you Matt,
thank you guys,

I like this new erosion too. BTW, it can be used for some other effects, for example, for snow cover and glaciers.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: cyphyr on August 25, 2018, 08:04:46 AM
Getting a CTD every time I use the Classic Erosion plug-in. I am running the latest Frontier version of Terragen (build 4.3.00 frontier) with the licensed version of Classic Erosion 1.1.

[edit: Still CTD with a fresh re-install of both the plug-in and Terragen]
[edit 2: Works properly when reverting to Terragen build 4.2.01 frontier (Terragen_4_Win64_42011.exe)]
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Tangled-Universe on August 25, 2018, 10:46:02 AM
I have the same problems as Richard described above.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on August 25, 2018, 04:54:42 PM
What is a CTD?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on August 25, 2018, 05:19:30 PM
What is a CTD?
Crash to Desktop.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Oshyan on August 26, 2018, 05:18:59 AM
Might be some breaking changes in 4.3 to the SDK. Please report any issues running 4.3 in the specific alpha discussion area.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: mhaze on August 26, 2018, 07:31:57 AM
Struggling to mask erosion particularly when you try to mask terrain with an altitude below 0.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on August 26, 2018, 12:28:04 PM
I get frequent CTD episodes and I'm still using an older version of TG 4.1.25 so I'm thinking some kind of bug in the plugin as the same scene minus the plugin's input doesn't CTD. At first I thought it might be this under powered DELL I'm using while the workstation is out of commission hence the test.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Danny on August 26, 2018, 04:06:23 PM
Thank bud !
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on August 29, 2018, 06:56:18 PM
Getting a CTD every time I use the Classic Erosion plug-in. I am running the latest Frontier version of Terragen (build 4.3.00 frontier) with the licensed version of Classic Erosion 1.1.
[edit: Still CTD with a fresh re-install of both the plug-in and Terragen]
[edit 2: Works properly when reverting to Terragen build 4.2.01 frontier (Terragen_4_Win64_42011.exe)]
Thank you very much for the report.

I get frequent CTD episodes and I'm still using an older version of TG 4.1.25
Could you please say what event cause CTD? Adding Classic Erosion? Eroding? Rendering?

Struggling to mask erosion particularly when you try to mask terrain with an altitude below 0.
Hm. It seems all works ok for me. Note that last versions of Classic Erosionuse standard Terragen-style for mask (you need to insert "Calculate normal" or "Calculate terrain", connected to main input of Classic Erosion node, and, say, Distribution shader, connected to Mask input. This distribution shader doesn't require any input to work correctly).

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on August 29, 2018, 10:00:56 PM
It's sometimes when I populate and sometimes it's just after tweaking something and all suddenly I'm looking at my desktop'
The exact same setup with Erosion disabled has no problems. Sometimes it's when working with atmosphere...nothing seemingly connected to the plugin really except maybe some masking functions.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: D.A. Bentley on August 31, 2018, 06:13:52 PM
Bobby, did you get your CTD issues sorted out?  I haven't had any problems yet with the new version.  I'm just using the simple maps setup that Daniil provided though.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on August 31, 2018, 08:50:53 PM
I never used the computer terrain before the erosion before, as needing two slows down rendering, and shading becomes an issue without two. Never had issues.

Haven't installed the latest yet.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on August 31, 2018, 10:01:51 PM
What is a CTD?

No but I thunk it's too much for this old DELL so I'll wait till the CORSAIR is running again...doing more music than TG right now so it all works out.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on September 02, 2018, 06:44:58 PM
Classic Erosion v.1.1.0.1 (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion")

 - few bugfixes (some bugs slightly affected thermal erosion parameters interpretation and thus thermal erosion behaviour);
 - User License Agreement changed to less strict: removed section "use it for press-related publication within any media, limited to a.) any textual description or recitation of Classic Erosion's functional, b.) printed or otherwise visual demonstration of the graphical user interface and c.) publication of graphic or video examples that explicitly demo Classic Erosion's capabilities, only if any of these publications contain explicit information about Classic Erosion's name, author and the address of his website (daniilkamperov.com), unless stated otherwise by the author in written form".

Some bugs are still not fixed, namely stability bug that was reported by some users and one strange bug that I watched few times (deposition map was extremely dark after some events; possibly it was temporary bug; please report if you experience it).

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on September 02, 2018, 10:52:25 PM
Thanks Daniil, have a great day.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on September 03, 2018, 01:11:40 AM
Classic Erosion v.1.1.0.1 (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion")

 - few bugfixes (some bugs slightly affected thermal erosion parameters interpretation and thus thermal erosion behaviour);
 - User License Agreement changed to less strict: removed section "use it for press-related publication within any media, limited to a.) any textual description or recitation of Classic Erosion's functional, b.) printed or otherwise visual demonstration of the graphical user interface and c.) publication of graphic or video examples that explicitly demo Classic Erosion's capabilities, only if any of these publications contain explicit information about Classic Erosion's name, author and the address of his website (daniilkamperov.com), unless stated otherwise by the author in written form".

Some bugs are still not fixed, namely stability bug that was reported by some users and one strange bug that I watched few times (deposition map was extremely dark after some events; possibly it was temporary bug; please report if you experience it).

Daniil

Is this where the deposition map has barely any detail in it? Least just really dark (black).
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: digitalguru on September 03, 2018, 12:02:48 PM
Hi Daniil,

Love the plugin, I purchased it after reading about adding secondary rain channels on this forum - and have used it to add some light erosion on a pre-existing terrain - really adds some nice extra details.

Have a question - thinking about rendering an animation on Pixel Plow - they list that they have Dkerosionclassic 0.8.10 (if that is your plugin) - would this be backwards compatible with the latest version of your plugin if I've saved out the erosion?

I'm also using the map channels for shading so I guess I might have to bake those to texture if it is.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on September 03, 2018, 06:32:43 PM
Is this where the deposition map has barely any detail in it? Least just really dark (black).

Not sure about details, but very black, yes. I had to set White point to really small values, like 0.000001 to see anything.
It seems I've just fixed this bug BTW.

Hi Daniil,
Love the plugin, I purchased it after reading about adding secondary rain channels on this forum - and have used it to add some light erosion on a pre-existing terrain - really adds some nice extra details.
Have a question - thinking about rendering an animation on Pixel Plow - they list that they have Dkerosionclassic 0.8.10 (if that is your plugin) - would this be backwards compatible with the latest version of your plugin if I've saved out the erosion?
I'm also using the map channels for shading so I guess I might have to bake those to texture if it is.
Thank you. I think the project wouldn't loaded correctly at least because of changing plugin name ("Erosion Classic" -> "Classic Erosion"). I'll see what I can do for renderfarms, at least for Windows-based.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: digitalguru on September 03, 2018, 06:41:01 PM
That's good news!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on September 04, 2018, 12:47:12 PM
Hi Daniil. I have a problem with the newest 2 plugin releases. Opening an older file gives me 418 warnings, and disabling the node or checking enable maps makes TG crash every time. I'll have another play and see what I can do, but I thought I'd post anyway.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on September 04, 2018, 05:33:29 PM
I'm a little scared to update now. :( No offense to Daniil, love the plugin. Hope these issues can be fixed. I was literally going to update today to work on my mountain scene and try rivers.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: bobbystahr on September 04, 2018, 08:36:07 PM
Hi Daniil. I have a problem with the newest 2 plugin releases. Opening an older file gives me 418 warnings, and disabling the node or checking enable maps makes TG crash every time. I'll have another play and see what I can do, but I thought I'd post anyway.

dunno why you're having problems. I opened a file from 2016 I think and in the attachment you hve the original, and 2 random seeds of it with nary a crash.
But I'm doing this on the DELL so I'm using Win10 and you're still using Win7 like my boat anchor/workstation....so it may be O/S related
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on September 04, 2018, 09:00:48 PM
Hi Daniil. I have a problem with the newest 2 plugin releases. Opening an older file gives me 418 warnings, and disabling the node or checking enable maps makes TG crash every time. I'll have another play and see what I can do, but I thought I'd post anyway.

dunno why you're having problems. I opened a file from 2016 I think and in the attachment you hve the original, and 2 random seeds of it with nary a crash.
But I'm doing this on the DELL so I'm using Win10 and you're still using Win7 like my boat anchor/workstation....so it may be O/S related

Good to hear.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on October 30, 2018, 07:18:32 PM
I noticed something a little interesting, when one TG instance is eroding, another TG instance will have a un-editable (super slow/frozen) plugin instance. Are they somehow tied to the same resources? Everything else in the second TG instance works besides the DK:CE plugin while the other is eroding. The window will open, but changing anything causes the plugin itself to freeze (not a not responding freeze though), for example clicking a checkbox will highlight the checkbox, but it wouldn't "check" until the erosion in the other TG instance was finished.

Edit: Doing some extra testing, it seems I can get "one" change out of the second instance of the plugin before it than locks up until the other is done processing.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on October 31, 2018, 06:45:44 AM
Maybe that's just because it takes up so many resources that other stuff is stalled.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on October 31, 2018, 07:59:35 PM
Maybe that's just because it takes up so many resources that other stuff is stalled.

Yeah that's what I assume, as another instance will be slower, but specifically another DK::CE instance is unworkable. As soon as anything is edited the windows just becomes unresponsive, but not not responding (so you can X out of the window still - after much delay)

I had the idea of using two instances of a scene, one in very low resolution for small changes that I could carry over to the other scene to see in better resolution, while still working on the main bits of the scene in the other. Probably not the best idea in general.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Oshyan on October 31, 2018, 09:07:43 PM
As Ulco said, this is probably just because the erosion node is one of the heavier nodes to calculate, and thus is using up a lot of resources whenever you make a change.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on October 31, 2018, 10:00:53 PM
I'm trying to figure out if the plugins resources are shared, as this is more exclusive to the node itself between instances, where I can go about editing everything else in another instance while another is sampling/eroding. While yes, inhibited by the CPU being slow, but specifically, a second instance of the DK::CE plugin becomes unresponsive trying to make any changes, where the TG instance itself is usable and can work in it (albeit slowly). This isn't even attempting a second erosion, simply changing settings in another instance of the plugin in another instance of TG.

Probably more a question for Daniil.

Also wondering if Original hf details are included in the erosion as scalar data or more a masked overlay from original shaders/hf?
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Oshyan on October 31, 2018, 11:28:20 PM
I doubt the resources are shared, not even sure how they could be, but maybe. Is the preview paused in both instances while you're testing that? If not, it's probably just the preview of the 2nd one having a more demanding calculation for updating (the erosion) vs. any other calculation it might do to update the preview if you change a non-erosion setting.

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 01, 2018, 02:12:49 AM
I doubt the resources are shared, not even sure how they could be, but maybe. Is the preview paused in both instances while you're testing that? If not, it's probably just the preview of the 2nd one having a more demanding calculation for updating (the erosion) vs. any other calculation it might do to update the preview if you change a non-erosion setting.

- Oshyan

That's a good point Oshyan, I do have the preview active, I guess in the first one it is sorta paused in the sense DK::CE freezes TG while Sampling/Eroding.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 03, 2018, 12:54:14 AM
I'm having issues with the flow maps. They're not representative of the scalar data. They're incredibly dark, so when you go to use a colour adjust on them there is colour burning (falloff effect) from details that went to absolute black.

Also the blending borders mode seems to creating lines for some reason as well.

Additionally, sometimes there is no deposition map at all with erosion? Have encountered this a few times, even on extreme displacements, and not sure why.

Thanks for any help, Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Matt on November 03, 2018, 01:16:31 AM
The border blending issue can be fixed by unchecking "stitchable border". It's intended for tiling DEMs, but is enabled by default (maybe not a good thing).
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Hannes on November 03, 2018, 10:17:29 AM
...but is enabled by default (maybe not a good thing).

Indeed.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 03, 2018, 07:42:13 PM
The border blending issue can be fixed by unchecking "stitchable border". It's intended for tiling DEMs, but is enabled by default (maybe not a good thing).

This is regarding Daniil's Classic Erosion, there is no stitchable border setting It's just border blending, which according to docs just blends out the border of the heightmap. Not sure how you'd handle DEM's in his plugin considering it's proprietary.

Off topicly though, I'd love to see an actual DEM example. I download all of our region here, Mt St. Helens to Mt Baker with Mt. Rainier inbetween, however, the borders are solid, and the stitchable setting by default looks like garbage and had 1000x better results manually positioning and blending the borders together.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Matt on November 04, 2018, 05:03:35 PM
Oh, I thought it was the Heightfield Shader for some reason. I should have known you meant Classic Erosion.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 11, 2018, 07:33:20 PM
Hello,
thank you for reports.

I noticed something a little interesting, when one TG instance is eroding, another TG instance will have a un-editable (super slow/frozen) plugin instance. Are they somehow tied to the same resources? Everything else in the second TG instance works besides the DK:CE plugin while the other is eroding. The window will open, but changing anything causes the plugin itself to freeze (not a not responding freeze though), for example clicking a checkbox will highlight the checkbox, but it wouldn't "check" until the erosion in the other TG instance was finished.
Edit: Doing some extra testing, it seems I can get "one" change out of the second instance of the plugin before it than locks up until the other is done processing.

This is interesting obsevation. Right now I can't presume possible reasons for that, but I'll think about it. Early versions of Procedural erosion had some interesting behaviour - defferent instances could affect each other - because of my old memory pool, it was declared as "static", so different instances actually used the same pool (but not the same memory). But I don't have any similar things in Classic Erosion (and modern Procedural Erosion is free of this bug too).

I'm having issues with the flow maps. They're not representative of the scalar data. They're incredibly dark, so when you go to use a colour adjust on them there is colour burning (falloff effect) from details that went to absolute black.
Also the blending borders mode seems to creating lines for some reason as well.
Additionally, sometimes there is no deposition map at all with erosion? Have encountered this a few times, even on extreme displacements, and not sure why.
Thanks for any help, Daniil

Hm. This sounds similar to some already fixed bugs. Possibly you are using old version? Please try the latest version and see if you have any problems.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 11, 2018, 07:46:14 PM
Hello,
thank you for reports.

I noticed something a little interesting, when one TG instance is eroding, another TG instance will have a un-editable (super slow/frozen) plugin instance. Are they somehow tied to the same resources? Everything else in the second TG instance works besides the DK:CE plugin while the other is eroding. The window will open, but changing anything causes the plugin itself to freeze (not a not responding freeze though), for example clicking a checkbox will highlight the checkbox, but it wouldn't "check" until the erosion in the other TG instance was finished.
Edit: Doing some extra testing, it seems I can get "one" change out of the second instance of the plugin before it than locks up until the other is done processing.

This is interesting obsevation. Right now I can't presume possible reasons for that, but I'll think about it. Early versions of Procedural erosion had some interesting behaviour - defferent instances could affect each other - because of my old memory pool, it was declared as "static", so different instances actually used the same pool (but not the same memory). But I don't have any similar things in Classic Erosion (and modern Procedural Erosion is free of this bug too).

I'm having issues with the flow maps. They're not representative of the scalar data. They're incredibly dark, so when you go to use a colour adjust on them there is colour burning (falloff effect) from details that went to absolute black.
Also the blending borders mode seems to creating lines for some reason as well.
Additionally, sometimes there is no deposition map at all with erosion? Have encountered this a few times, even on extreme displacements, and not sure why.
Thanks for any help, Daniil

Hm. This sounds similar to some already fixed bugs. Possibly you are using old version? Please try the latest version and see if you have any problems.

Daniil

Oh no! I thought i upgraded when things were figured out from the last release. I'll try and grab another and see if that resolves the issues.

As for the odd behavior, I'm not sure. I just stopped using another instance of TG with erosion. I noted too it was odd, though, even when you start a new instance of TG, before it even starts, the Classic Erosion window, and progress window, will pop-up over the Terragen 4 Splash (freeware version) which asks if you want to use the freeware version or activate a license. Depending on what point the erosion is at, the windows can be unresponsive (but not forzen) and won't let the splash overlay over them.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 11, 2018, 07:54:15 PM
Classic Erosion v1.1.1 (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)
Multiple small changes, most notable:

1. Some old bugs fixed. These are important fixes as they degraded erosion quality. These bugs were added accidentally while working on rivers, so early CE versions (before rivers) had better quality.

2. Two hidden parameters are revealed. First (it is called "Retardation of downcutting", but this is too long for GUI, so it is "Downcutting retardation" in GUI) controls downcutting behavior - slows down erosive flows at some places, effectively preventing downcutting. I added this mechanics just after initial CE release and hesitated about adding a parameter, controlling this mechanics, as there are already two parameters for downcutting, but finally I decided to add this. And the second is "Talus settling" in thermal erosion.

3. Added built-in check for updates (may be blocked by firewalls).

4. Added option to turn normalization off for deposition and wear maps. In this case it's outputs are in meters, so you can adjust while and black points in meters, and they aren't dependent on maximum values of these maps (very useful if you try to animate thermal erosion).

5. Classic Erosion now works correctly if Terragen is started without GUI (from command prompt). Also it should work on Pixel Plow farm. Important note! Currently it works on Pixel Plow only if erosion cache (.erd) file is provided, so you should precalculate it on your machine and upload with your project. Don't forget to turn "Read erosion data on project loading" parameter on (although possibly you can do it in Pixel Plow already, or may be it is overrided there).

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 11, 2018, 07:56:21 PM
Oh no! I thought i upgraded when things were figured out from the last release. I'll try and grab another and see if that resolves the issues.

Check the new one. :D

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 11, 2018, 08:34:25 PM
Oh aweosme! Just installed it. :D Thanks for all the work, such an amazing plugin.

Classic Erosion v1.1.1 (https://daniilkamperov.com/downloads/#classic-erosion)
Multiple small changes, most notable:

1. Some old bugs fixed. These are important fixes as they degraded erosion quality. These bugs were added accidentally while working on rivers, so early CE versions (before rivers) had better quality.

2. Two hidden parameters are revealed. First (it is called "Retardation of downcutting", but this is too long for GUI, so it is "Downcutting retardation" in GUI) controls downcutting behavior - slows down erosive flows at some places, effectively preventing downcutting. I added this mechanics just after initial CE release and hesitated about adding a parameter, controlling this mechanics, as there are already two parameters for downcutting, but finally I decided to add this. And the second is "Talus settling" in thermal erosion.

3. Added built-in check for updates (may be blocked by firewalls).

4. Added option to turn normalization off for deposition and wear maps. In this case it's outputs are in meters, so you can adjust while and black points in meters, and they aren't dependent on maximum values of these maps (very useful if you try to animate thermal erosion).

5. Classic Erosion now works correctly if Terragen is started without GUI (from command prompt). Also it should work on Pixel Plow farm. Important note! Currently it works on Pixel Plow only if erosion cache (.erd) file is provided, so you should precalculate it on your machine and upload with your project. Don't forget to turn "Read erosion data on project loading" parameter on (although possibly you can do it in Pixel Plow already, or may be it is overrided there).

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Dune on November 12, 2018, 06:10:23 AM
Thansk very much, Daniil!
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: WASasquatch on November 12, 2018, 07:53:23 AM
Really thinking about having some stuff rendered on pixel plow now as I can do some funny and cool stuff from a distance without much worry of 3 pop limitation to have good variation in veggies.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: sboerner on November 12, 2018, 05:30:36 PM
Any plans, Daniil, for porting this over to the Mac? I would love to be able to take it for a spin.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: KirillK on November 15, 2018, 09:12:11 AM
I installed the free version and nothing seems  working on my loaded terrain height image. I see flat surface and nothing else.

 What am I missing?   
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: blinkfrog on November 16, 2018, 04:34:41 AM
I installed the free version and nothing seems  working on my loaded terrain height image. I see flat surface and nothing else.
 What am I missing?   

Could you please describe your scene setup briefly? I suppose you have Heightfield with your terrain loaded and Classic Erosion inserted just after this heightfield? If so, it should work, but please check the position of your heightfield - it can differ to default (0.0, 0.0) if your image has any georeferencing information.

Any plans, Daniil, for porting this over to the Mac? I would love to be able to take it for a spin.

I'd like to make a Mac port, but unfortunately Mac-version of Terragen SDK isn't ready yet.

Daniil
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: sboerner on November 16, 2018, 12:49:54 PM
Quote
I'd like to make a Mac port, but unfortunately Mac-version of Terragen SDK isn't ready yet.

Thanks – I understand that your hands are tied here. Planetside – any chance that the Mac SDK could be given a higher priority? I can't speak for other Mac users, but I can't help but feel left behind here. And perhaps other third-party developers besides Danill are being affected too.

Mini-rant over. Thanks for listening.  :)
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: Oshyan on November 17, 2018, 04:52:55 AM
We have been discussing this internally. No verdict yet, but we are definitely aware that there is interest in the SDK on Mac (and Linux).

- Oshyan
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: René on November 17, 2018, 10:47:27 AM

I can't speak for other Mac users


I for one am eagerly looking forward to working with it.
Title: Re: Classic Erosion plugin
Post by: sboerner on November 17, 2018, 04:28:43 PM
Quote
We have been discussing this internally. No verdict yet, but we are definitely aware that there is interest in the SDK on Mac (and Linux).

That's encouraging news, Oshyan. Please let us know how things develop. Thank you!