Steve Jobs 1955-2011 RIP

[Seth]

This was cool (from Brad Peebler at Luxology) -

"His passing hit me in a way I did not expect. I considered him a sort of mentor. I am not an Apple-zealot. I use a PC and Mac interchangeably everyday and I like and hate them both equally. At any rate, Steve was someone I looked up to and while many people talk about his "tyrant" qualities, I never experienced that. Most likely this is because I met him at a later stage in his life. I am not suggesting that he deserves the sort of unconditional praise we see in the press and worldwide over the last few days but at the same time it is unfair to be overly critical of a person you do not know. And to publicly bash someone days after their death is not being sensitive to those who may have known and liked/loved him."

That is a good quote.
That means that we have to wait some time before speaking the truth about people when they die ? ^^
I am joking calico, I understand your point

[TheBadger]

no but I kinda like the Dadaism, so it is funny to read that Eisenstein turn photomontage into art, as if nobody did that before him.

Dadaism is not Montage it is Collage, but that is not the point of Dadaism. Dadaisms principal focus was mockery, so I understand why you like it.

Read about the film "Ivan the terrible", by S. Eisenstein.

[TheBadger]

Anyway I really am finished now. I expect you will want the last word, good luck with that.

[Seth]

thank you for that.
first of all, maybe it was misunderstanding from me but in french photomontage and collage can be the same thing. and Dadaism is photomontage for me.
If you know ABCD from Hausmann, we call that photomontage in french.

but to come back on Steve Jobs
here my position on this subject, better written by far.
http://i.imgur.com/hIcgm.jpg

debating with DutchDimension was interesting even if I lost the debate.
But debating with you was really not nice.
I love debating and I really like to be the Devil's advocate.
But being insulted and patronized just because you disagree, and because you interpret things instead of trying to understand them really pissed me off.
I don't ask people to agree with me, just to try to understand my point. As I try to understand others even if I don't agree. (like the last post from calico, I absolutely truely disagree but I understand)


You didn't like me "jumping" in the thread about steve Jobs death.
But I was talking about Jobs and Apple, even if it was to say they don't fit my taste.

Maybe you will say that this journalist (who wrote this article I linked) is a fool, and he doesn't know anything, and he is just doing something really out of morale by trying to express his opinion on Steve Jobs.


Leaving the discussion now is very strange.
you jumped in to criticize me, which is your right and I even appreciate it because debates are always interesting.
but then you insult me, calling me fool and all and now you are leaving ?
what is the point in that ?
maybe you just understood that your political explaination of the picture is totally out of subject...


anyway, I am still here and if others want to debate about Steve Jobs and Apple... I'm here guys

[rcallicotte]

Wow - 40 Billion Dollars.

Thanks for the link, 'Seth'.     

[FrankB]

...
but to come back on Steve Jobs
here my position on this subject, better written by far.
http://i.imgur.com/hIcgm.jpg

I don't know, this article would only be good if it was true that people (at large) would *actually*, and literally shed tears or are in true mourning.
I believe most people get by this news thinking "oh, pity. he was a very interesting person and I liked this and that about him. Shame he wasn't given more time to do things that I liked.", and then get on with their day - maybe over the next few days wondering about what will become of apple and maybe remembering a few moments that impressed them.

Granted, there might be a few with true grief, as if Steve was some kind of messiah, but clearly they are the minority. And because they are a minority, this article, and also your view on the subject Franck, is over the top. Both the article and your point of view Franck, are based on the assumption that people *actually* are in true sorrow and grief about this event. So it's like you're fighting back an attack against your values, that didn't even exist (at large).

What journalists write is one thing, what people think is another.

Cheers;
Frank

[Seth]

did you see what happened in front and inside some Apple Stores
people praying on their kneels, some crying....

but you are right.
only a few people are in true sorrow.
and as you said journalists writings are not always reality (rarely are).
And I agree with you, that the problem has more to do with the media and how they present things and how the people react to that.
it is always stunning to see how people can just drink media speech as it was truth in words.

[Seth]

but again, people feel concern about him... more than they feel concern about real subjects...
they sent 10000 tweets by seconds when he died !!!
and all the people were talking about that.

that is just crazy...

[FrankB]

I haven't seen any cry & weep outburst footage, but I can imagine it happened. But even then some of those people might be just very empathetic and just go pray like they would for anyone else. Although even I think yes there are some people who are religious towards Steve as an icon.
I'm just sure it's a minority overall. Crying people having a breakdown inside an apple store is "newsworthy" footage, it will be shown on TV and spread over youtube, twitter ets... The reactions of the average man has nothing to "show" so media aren't presenting this.

So the easy conclusion for the observer is "Apple fans over-reacting religiously over the death of near-messiah Steve", and therefore "All Apple Users are self consumed egoists and don't care about the real problems in the world" .... and that of course arouses some emotions whether people have their values set straight.

But it's all based on wrong assumptions!!

I don't mind the tweets / second. This is newsworthy stuff and twitterers are self-made news wires, however unimportant they might be
So it's natural that this created some buzz.

Cheers,
Frank

[Seth]

"All Apple Users are self consumed egoists and don't care about the real problems in the world"

nobody said that though

[FrankB]

yes I know, but it's kind of what you get watching/reading the article.

[cyphyr]

Some people become "icons" in that what they represent is very different from who they are, think Princess Diana or just about any Pope. Both are "deemed" above criticism but neither have lived perfect lives. The value of an icon is that it allows us to express feelings that would otherwise overwhelm us. We (well I then, I shan't speak for others), can't express or even comprehend the extent of suffering in this world but I can understand the loss of an individual, something I and many of us have experienced. This is one of those times when the "truth" truly is subjective, the mans legend or shadow have eclipsed the personality itself, something that must have been quite difficult to live with on reflection, both for him, his close companions and to an small extent, the rest of us.
Just my two cents!
Cheers
Richard

[Seth]

I agree with almost everything you said Richard;
except the part saying it mst have been difficult to be an icon.
it must have been so hard to live with all those millions dollars knowing that your kids will have enough money to live in no need of anything

[cyphyr]

I agree with almost everything you said Richard;
except the part saying it mst have been difficult to be an icon.
it must have been so hard to live with all those millions dollars knowing that your kids will have enough money to live in no need of anything

Oh I'm sure the money helped, but when people get that rich they tend to loose touch with reality, check out the various ego inflated pop, movie and political stars! Sure it would be fun, but I would not want to swap places with the mega rich, maybe just the ordinary rich, !! 
Richard

[efflux]

I personally don't think Steve Jobs was a bad person. He had a lot of passion for what he did. Maybe he was funded by DARPA, as I've read. It's obviously bad that Apple products are made by low paid workers in China but is this Steve Job's fault?

Any Apple products I've had have been good. I'm typing this from a Macbook Pro although my other computers where I do music and graphics are Linux. OSX is a reliable OS. Apple products are beautifully designed. I use my Macbook for basic daily stuff like browsing the net where I only need a laptop. I didn't buy this new though. It's second hand. I'm not saying Apple are perfect but the products are decent. As for Windows, don't get me started. Microsoft are a model of corruption. Bill Gates and his family are definitely not decent people.

However, the real problem is a general culture of total ignorance. People want lots of cheap stuff and they don't really care what slaves make it even if their neighbour is put out of a job due to this. They don't care about The US or most of Europe being deliberately de-industrialized. Now most people can't buy stuff made by people on decent wages because that wealth has been stolen. Currently it's being ploughed into a massive military build up in the Middle East to threaten one of the very countries who make that stuff you buy and have been lending you the money to buy it - China. China is of course a totalitarian state. This is coming your way soon but much worse than China. What goes around comes around. Russia are being forced into a military built up with intent to defend itself from currently escalating US and European aggression spurred by a collapsing economy (collapsed by design). USA in particular has not long to go now before it passes the point of no return. It's being duped into a war with the rest of the world that it can not possibly win - in exactly the same way Germany was (twice) and for exactly the same reasons. Free, industrious and wealthy sovereign nations are no good to international elites whose system needs regular population culls and reduction to poverty otherwise their system based on Oligarchical principles of economics can't sustain itself. It has to bail itself out by eventually using, wars, genocides etc, once the banking bailouts fail. If they are not stopped, the dark ages in Europe will look like a picnic compared to the coming collapse.

There are more important issues than Steve Jobs dying. That I do agree with.

And just a note about that article by Neeraj Thakur. It's really quite twisted. Steve Jobs was not just a celebrity. He also uses Jonas Edward Salk (the developer of the polio vaccine) as an example of somebody to praise. Bad choice because Salk was also involved in medical experiments on human beings.