Hey Guys. Thanks. Because its not like I can just walk across the street and ask my neighbor about living in Eroupoe... Acually he is from China though
A few things I would like to add to the conversation...
@Cypher
what you described in your first post about the kind of community/society you would prefer to live in has been tried, and by your own people in fact.
The Mayflower CompactIn the name of God, Amen. We, whose names are underwritten, the Loyal Subjects of our dread Sovereign Lord, King James, by the Grace of God, of Great Britain, France and Ireland, King, Defender of the Faith, Etc.
Having undertaken for the Glory of God, and Advancement of the Christian Faith, and the Honour of our King and Country, a voyage to plant the first colony in the northern Parts of Virginia; do by these Presents, solemnly and mutually in the Presence of God and one of another, covenant and combine ourselves together into a civil Body Politick, for our better Ordering and Preservation, and Furtherance of the Ends aforesaid; And by Virtue hereof to enact, constitute, and frame, such just and equal Laws, Ordinances, Acts, Constitutions and Offices, from time to time, as shall be thought most meet and convenient for the General good of the Colony; unto which we promise all due Submission and Obedience.
In Witness whereof we have hereunto subscribed our names at Cape Cod the eleventh of November, in the Reign of our Sovereign Lord, King James of England, France and Ireland, the eighteenth, and of Scotland the fifty-fourth. Anno Domini, 1620Given the situation of the landing, the good nature of those involved, and all other variables that I know of, I cannot imagine a better chance for the IDEALS behind communism to actually work in practice. But it did not work. It failed... And pretty badly too. IF you or anyone wants to know more just look up the The Mayflower Compact... But for the love of all that is scholarly, stop relying on wikipidia, people! Its not a scholarly resource. (I am saying this in general, not to you Richard)
(here ends todays rant on wiki)
@Seth,
That program did not say anything bad about France or England. It only showed that some of what is happing in Greece and spain is also happening in the more stable countries in Europe. They only showed that stuff because they made the point that what is going on in the Southern nations is spreading to the North. The program did not say Eroupions were stupid. I did. And I only did to provoke a discusion about something I think is interesting and important with people who are seeing history happen with their own eyes and in person... You guys
And also because it is funny, since many of you like to point out flaws in the US and call us stupid.
Also I understand your feelings about hating all governments including your own (not just the US) I feel it to sometimes. Im just not ready to lay down.
@T-U
I sense a real effort to be diplomatic on your part. Thank you for that.
QuoteCan anyone here explain to me what they mean with "fascist/fascism" or what it means to them?
Here I think you mean the so called "fascists" in Greece? I can tell you that in the news show from the OP that the leaders of the movement (I cant recall right now what they call their party) Claim
not to be Nazis, and that in the interviews they
refuted the notion that they were fascists, saying "fascist is an italian word". "We are Greeks", they said. "We are Nationalists", they said.
However, the parties headquarters was filled with Nazi books, including Goebbels books.
So I say if it looks like a duck, and it quacks like a duck... Its a Nazi!
You asked if I was being too black and white. Well yes black and white, but not too much.
In your analysis you did not consider two of the most important elements of the issues I brought up and you brought up. That is, History and language.
Language; In the simplest terms (in English) Anarchy is the absence of government, and Communism (not its ideals, but structure) is total government. So it is literally (by definition) impossible to be a Anarchist Communist.
However, if you are suggesting that Anarchy is a way to destabilize the current government, as a way to build support for the communist party, then this is still not Anarchy, it is subterfuge. Subterfuge is a classic tactic of all communist movements.
I can also tell you (based on that show, and those interviews) That none of the activists, from any of the movements, came off as being very intelligent. They all looked rather young. And more than anything It felt like they were just very angry, and even scared.
I did not get the sense at all, that the interviewers were doing the show with an agenda. They seemed to just be curious. And no, I don't think the show was, or was intended to be comprehensive in explaining what is happing in Greece. I felt like it was just supposed to be a look at things.
History; Everyone so far has seamed to leave out a absolutely crucial part of the equation. That is, in the case of Communism, and Fascism (or at least in every case where a government called ITS SELF these things) there ALWAYS has come Totalitarianism.
This is true in every case on every continent. Every effort to establish a Communist government or a Fascist government in earth's history, has required for its establishment, and been responsible for, mass murder, theft, rape and slavery. (murder has also been used to prevent these governments from forming, as well as lesser tactics)
In every case the result of the establishment of a communist Government resulted in gross inequality between the people in the government and the rest of the nation. This inequality is always worse in the end, than it was before the change.
And this is why I used the word stupid in the OP. How can you possibly tolerate the idea, that somehow, todays Europeans can make work, what everyone else, everywhere, has failed at? It is foolish pride. You cannot make a government more "Just", by giving it more power. Communism and fascism only make the evil people in our world more powerful.
I think you would have better luck again trying to turn lead into gold.
I do not deny the problems and issues you or anyone has pointed out. And I share your anger at the likely causes. But the proposed solutions are asinine.
I also have become disillusioned with Democracy. Democracy requires for it to work, a highly moral, highly educated population, where the culture is firmly rooted in a claim to Truth, and where all members belong to the same culture and language (but not race). With those things gone we are doomed. (We are sooooo diverse now though, isn't it great?! Doesn't it just work so well?!)
Lastly,
If I must choose (because of force) between Communism (and to a lesser extent, socialism) or Fascism, I choose Fascism.
Communism (and to a lesser extent, socialism) destroys the individual for the sake of the collective. And with all my heart, I hate the "collective". But I love you all as individuals!
Though I will never have to make this choice, because I will die trying to kill anyone who tries to force it on me.
I do not except any vote, or any majority, that attempts to make me a slave or a serf, or a servant of anyone who hates me, or whom I hate.
You will always have to collect your TAXES (really extortion) under threat of violence. I only pay my taxes because if I don't, the IRS will come to my house with guns, then they will steal my house and put me in jail. Or murder me if I fight back.
Anyway, these are just my feelings. Take em' or leave em'. It wont change anything.
P.S. I realize I say "you" a lot. I really mean people in general. Not you guys here. Its a lazy habit, I know. Sorry.